Original paper patched bullet designs?

[Eric Johanen]

Look's very much like my 50-70 PP load. I use the BACO Jim492500 over 70.0 grains of 1.5 Swiss with a thin card and grease wad column. I've not tried a groove diameter bullet but the bore diameter shoots very well. My OAL is 2.550 and I really should try a longer OAL without the grease wad and wipe between shots. You know what? I think I'll try it Jim.

       

[Distant Thunder]

Eric,
It's good to hear from you. Yea that looks very much like my bullet, it would be hard to tell them apart. I went with groove diameter because of the somewhat longish freebore in this rifle, .350". That and the desire to keep the bullet short, 1 1/16" and light, under 500 grains. I wanted something between 470 and 480 grains and ended up with 490 + 1 or 2 grains. I can live with that weight and I don't want to shorten the bullet so here I am, 490.

I spent the afternoon shooting this rifle and bullet. Working at first with 78.0 grain of 2F Goex at 100 yards I quickly move to 200M and tested a couple wads and primers and got a sight setting. I ended the day with 75.0 grains of 2F and Federal 215 primers and that worked pretty well.
   
The first 2 shots were less than an inch apart at 1 o'clock just outside the 3" circle, the 3rd I broke a touch high so of course the 4th one I broke a touch low. The 5th went just above the 1st one and I was pretty happy with the group. It's at least something I can work with. I was using my Buffalo Hunter Sporting tang sight and the MVA Beach combination front sight with the nickel silver blade up and aiming at the 8 1/2 x 11" white sheet of paper taped to a 18 x 24" white target. So all I was seeing was a big white target at 200M. There is some vertical room for error in that setup and it shows in the group. I used that as my target because it closely represents the white gongs used at Merrill, WI.

I wanted to chronograph this final load but I ran out of time and good light so that will have to wait.

I discovered that the blade is .060" taller than the pinhead on this front sight. They say that it allows you to file the blade to the desired height. I'll leave it as is for now, but I could lower it the .060" so they match.

I don't see as I'll have much more time to do any more work with is load before the 5th and the gong matcht a Merrill. I will likely just use this last load from today and leave it at that.

DT

[Don McDowell]

Nice shooting Jim

[Eric Johanen]

DT, what is that bullet tray you have for storing .50 cal. bullets? I have not ben able to find a tray that fits. My .44 and .45 bullets are all stored in .45 ACP plastic trays and really would like to find a suitable one for my 50's.

[Distant Thunder]

Eric,
Yea me too, but I haven't really looked for .50 caliber bullet trays. The one in the picture is just an old Hornady cartridge reloading tray that I've had for 40 years. It was the only thing I had when I was looking for something to put these in the other day. I think .50 cal.s will fit in a .45 ACP tray if you stick them nose down, but it not the best fit. I'll let you know if I find something better, there has to be something out there.

DT

[Stephen Borud]

DT have you tried 70 grains of Fg Powder in your rifle? I find with a 3/16th thick lube wad you can shoot 40 rounds without wiping, just a few breathes down the muzzle to soften the fouling and the rifle is back up to par. I am curious if you have shot 70 grains of Fg is the fouling less then or softer then using FFg Powder.

SB

[Distant Thunder]

Stephen, No I have not worked on such a load, but I'm definitely interested in doing that as time permits. I have a gong match coming up on Saturday if the weather is reasonably dry. That will be my first test with this bullet/load beyond 200m and will be at 200, 300, 400, & 500 yards, 40 shots (with 5 offhand). I see no problem with the 200 and 300, but I have not shot a bullet under 520 grains at 400 and 500 yards. I've had good result with both GG and PP out to 500 with bullets weighing 560 to 590 grains. So this will be an interesting test.

This winter or in the spring I'd like to experiment with a load using this bullet that would allow for that kind of dirty shooting. I'm sure I'd have to seat it deeper and develop a lube wad that would make it possible to shoot dirty. Yeah, I would definitely want to work with that. I believe I have some 1F left from several years back. I do have a good supply of 2F and that's one reason I'm using it for this cartridge/bullet, that and it has always shot well for me it this rifle.

Any tips you can pass along on lube wads would certainly be appreciated.

DT

[Distant Thunder]

Today was the 40-shot gong match at Merrill, WI. As always there were 10 shots each at 200 (5 offhand), 300, 400, & 500 yards. My purpose today was to get sight settings and get an idea of the accuracy of this 490 grain ppb in my .50-70. I was a bit disappointed that the gongs were black for this match, They have most often been white and I believe that white would have been easier to see on this dark overcast and very humid day. The sights I have on this rifle are a bit limiting in fine adjustments. The front sight is an MVA Beach combination sight with the .025" pinhead option. I can see this fine bead against a light colored target, but not against the black gongs. So I had to use the blade which is quite wide and worked well at 200 and 300 yards. Not so well at 400. At 500 yards it is way to coarse a sight to be effective.
The rear sight is a Distant Thunder Buffalo Hunter Sporting tang sight. It is a close copy of the original sporting tang sight that Sharps offered for their rifles. For windage it has a dovetailed aperture that is locked in place with a set screw once the no wind zero is found. Windage adjustment while shooting is Kentucky windage. Elevation is by a friction slide and there is a scale engraved in .050" increments on the face of the staff. The friction is adjustable by a set screw in the right sight of the slide. I did have the slide move up during my offhand at 200 yards. It cost me one miss when I went from offhand to shooting off sticks.

I managed to hit 3 gongs offhand at 200 (a good day for me), I missed the first off the sticks with the slide having moved up, giving me a total of 7 at 200.

At 300 things went a little better, on the first sweep I missed the stupid little diamond just over the left point. I hit a total of 9 at 300.

At 400 things didn't go as well. On the first sweep I had a lot of trouble trying to get the elevation centered and I found the turkeys impossible to see behind that wide blade. I only hit one of the 4 turkeys and I missed two other gongs as well, my total at 400 was 5.

I put on a estimated 500 yard sight setting, looked at the gongs through the sights and said, "That ain't happening!". I could only make out a couple of the bigger gongs. My spotter talked me into giving it a try anyway, so I took 2 sighters and called quits. It's hard to hit something you can't see.

All in all I was happy with the accuracy of this 490 grain bullet. It shot flatter than I had estimated it would and if I could see the gong I could hit it out to 400 yards. That's a long ways for hunting sights I think.

The disappoint I had was in the 40 shots I fired 6 would not chamber. When I knock those bullets out on the rifle the paper was crumpled or folded back. I'm using Seth Cole 55Y and this is the thinnest paper I've ever used. It has proven to be a challenge to work with both in the cutting of the patches and wrapping the bullets tight. Being this mold is cut to give me a snug fit for this groove diameter bullet in the long freebore my chamber I'll have to come up with a solution to the chambering problem. The mold was cut specifically to use 55Y paper.

Two things have occurred to me, I've been dry patching, maybe wet patching would be a bit tighter. Or I could size the patched bullets down just bit, .0005 to .0010". The good things about the 55Y is it shoots very well in this rifle and all I can find of the patches is the fold over at the base. I have not yet found any other part of a patch. So if you like fine confetti this paper is as good as I've seen.

What are you other patchers who use 55Y finding for result and what suggestions can you offer that may help me sort out the problems I had today with this paper?

DT

[Kurt]

Jim your right. If you cant see them you just wont hit them reliably.

I have a .396 diameter bullet for the .40-65 and the bore is a shallow .003" deep and the bore is .3992" and this calls for a thin 55Y patch but even with it the finished bullet is to tight even for the camming action the 441/2 Stevens action. It will chamber but it is a firm pull on the lever to get is seated past thumb pressure and I have extracted the case and drove the bullet out of the bore and even with the bore wiped and the long 4 degree transition into a 1.5 degree lead the front of the patch was wrinkled some. The 55Y is a little fragile for a tight fit so I ordered a custom .400" push through die from Lee that just fits the bore a little snug the way I like it and still seat the round with thumb pressure and not having the breach block put unwanted pressure on the bullet that will change the compression of the powder. I like the 55W paper better and running it through the die irons the paper on smooth and also folds the under lap tight.
I always refrained sizing a bullet but I see just squeezing it down 0015-8" does not change the ogive length enough to see it with the eye. But I imagine you probably have a 45 degree chamber end that would push that thin paper back some.
I like this 429 gr for this .40-65 with the 1/14 ROT and it does very good at the 1026 yard target at Baker when I ran some test rounds down range there is some good winds. I haven't desided yet if I will use it for the 1000 yard match at Harris MN on the 18'th and 19th or the .45-90.

[Don McDowell]

Jim I find the 55y paper rolls on better wet patched. I set the wet patched bullets on one of those electric coffee cup/ candle heaters, and you can see when the paper is dry. At any rate the 55y wet patched bullets are much more durable than when dry patched.
I have my Brooks dual diameter 40 cal bullet mould, it's similar to yours. I have about 20 of those patched and loaded ready to try in the CSA heartburn 40-70. Just need to get a few free moments to go give it a whirl.