Original paper patched bullet designs?

[Don McDowell]

Jim the Sharps catalogs list the naked bullet length at 1 1/16th inches and the weight at 473.

[Distant Thunder]

Hey, Don.

I was just going by Sellers' book:

"In the 1869 catalog they are listed as available with both the 457-grain grooved ball and the 500-grain patched ball."

"After 1876 the .50 caliber rifles were made only to order and no more cartridges were loaded. The standard loads were .50/70/425 grooved and .50/70/473 paper patched."

That last one was what I thought would be a good choice. Now when you say "naked bullet" is that a greaser or a to be patched bullet? The 1 1/16" sounds about right for a 473-grain bullet if it has a taper or not to blunt a nose.

I figured Sharps continued to sell just the bullets for loading after they discontinued selling the loaded ammo in .50 caliber. That I got from more he says about a .50-2 inch case which was apparently available for only about 4 years. He later mentions the 473-grain paper patched bullet being used in the .50-2 1/2 inch case as well.

So what weight .50 caliber paper patched bullets did Sharps offer either in loaded ammo or for loading in the .50-1 3/4 and the .50-2 1/2?

At this point it seems I going backwards, finding out less the more I read! I'll get there, eventually.

Thank for replying. Hope all is well.

DT

[Stephen Borud]

DT I shoot a 473 1 1/16th long bullet casted in 60/1 mix. I seat the bullet .250 deep in the case. The OD of the Bullet is .494 wrapped in 9 lbs 100% cotton onion skin paper. This allows for many many shots with the bore dirty. My 50 2 1/2 and 50 1 3/4” Shilohs both have 1/36 twist barrels. I’ve killed a few deer with the 425 grain bullet in the 50 1 3/4” case along with a 473 grain bullet last year gave a fork horn buck a dirt nap.

SB

[Stephen Borud]

DT here are a few on pics of the bullet, mold, and loaded round. With your faster twist you will need to cast a longer heavier bullet. I believe the original Sharps Rifles had 1/34,1/36 twist barrels. For this bullet I like a skirt around .075 wide and .120 deep.

SB

[Stephen Borud]

DT this Bullet is a really close duplicate of the original Sharps bullet. I forgot to mention that.

Thanks
SB

[Don McDowell]

Jim, sharps always referred to the patched bullets as naked, and the greasers as grooved.
In their last catalog they were still offering 50 cal components, the 2 1/2 case was offered loaded with either the 1 1/16 bullet with 100 gr. of powder or the 335 gr express grooved bullet with 110 grains. Their only listing for the 1 3/4 case was with the 1 inch naked bullet (425 gr.) with 70 grains of powder.

I sent an order off to Brooks for a dual diameter 40 bullet that is similar to yours, hope the mail lady brings it soon so the experimenting can commence.

[Distant Thunder]

Stephen,

Now we're talking, that's about 5,000 words worth there! I must say that you look a bit younger in that first picture than I took you for!

I hadn't given any thought to an adjustable mold, but looking at yours I'm thinking that just might be the way to go. I'm not a big fan of cupped bases, preferring flat based ppb. What are your thoughts on that subject?

My pp molds cast at .503 to .504 and patch with my 100% cotton 9# onionskin to .510", which fit my rifle perfectly. As to going longer to allow for the 26-twist, I'm not sure that would be necessary. The Lyman 515141 at about 450 grains and .965" shoots very well in my rifle. As with all bullets I have to seat it out a bit for top accuracy.


I'm getting a little pumped about using this rifle for this project. Today I put the Beach combination front sight and the semi-buckhorn rear on the rifle along with the sporting tang sight and took some leftover ammo from a couple of years ago and went out to sight in. I only had 12 rounds with two different bullets and I didn't figure it was going to be easy to get things lined up. I started at 25 yards with the 450-grain bullet and the barrel sight with the ladder down and the Beach with the brass blade up. The first shot was at 6 o'clock inside the 3" aiming circle, dead center left to right. Excellent. I moved to 50 yards and the second shot was centered and about 2 1/2 to 3" low. A slight adjustment in the sight picture and the next was in the 3" circle. After the second shot I had to switch to the 575-grain bullet. Out to 100 yards and the first was again 3" low and I adjusted and the next was 3" high. All shots were centered left to right and spread vertically as I would expect with the semi-buckhorn rear sight. A little practice and I'll figure out the correct sight picture.

I'll need to work with the ladder tipped up and see where I need to set that for longer range shooting and of course I'll get the sporting tang sight figured out when time permits. Today I ran short of time before supper, I hate to miss supper, and the light is already getting away after supper now. Boy summers are short in the northwoods!

Once these leftovers are shot up I'll switch to paper patched and get to work on a new mold that hopefully will resemble the original bullets closely enough to pass.


One thing I have to say about this .50-1 3/4" cartridge is that it is just a lot of fun to shoot. Recoil is mild, accuracy is great, and the smoke is abundant! Life is good!

DT

[Distant Thunder]

Don,

I will be most interested in what you find working with that bullet. I believe it is the most accurate ppb I've worked with in any caliber, though my .45 caliber long range just seems to shoot better every time I go to a match. The .45 is of course a one diameter bullet. I'm going to be working with a couple different people and rifles yet this year and early next year in hopes of refining the two-diameter ppb concept. They do work very well in the grease groove chambered rifles we've tried them in. The real test will come with my old C. Sharps 1874 in .45-70. That is the only rifle that I have not been able to get good consistent accuracy with using ppb. I have a good design for a two-diameter bullet that I think with tame that rifle and make it play nice.

Right now I've been sidetracked by this old .50-1 3/4" project and it is most accurate with ppb at groove diameter. The bullet has to fit the chamber!

Let me know when you get that mold and how Brooks did with it. He has always done a great job for me. Well there was one that was crap, but that was a bad design and I can't hold that against him I guess.

DT

[Distant Thunder]

DT this Bullet is a really close duplicate of the original Sharps bullet. I forgot to mention that.

Thanks
SB

I guess I assumed or knew that somehow. I will likely use that to develop my bullet though I may have to adjust a little to fit my chamber. It will be groove diameter of course, but I will follow the nose profile of your mold as close as possible. It's the look I'm after and I will do different only what I have to for my rifle.

Thank you, you have been most helpful.

DT

[Don McDowell]

I as you know am also a huge fan of the dual diameter bullets, they have treated me quite well in the 44's and 45's, hopefully this 40 follows suit. Steve's moulds have never disappointed..
Will post a thread on it when this next adventure happens.

I need to get this original 50 out and shoot it, have the ammo loaded just haven't gotten around to shooting it.