Original paper patched bullet designs?

[Distant Thunder]

I am looking for pictures, drawings, and/or dimensions for some of the original paper patches bullets. Especially any that are .50 caliber and would have been used by the buffalo runners. Not so much the Creedmoor style of bullets. I'm looking for a design that would be suitable for the .50 1 3/4 inch cartridge. I know The Sharps Rifle Company loaded a 473 grain ppb in the .50-1 3/4 and that would be of particular interest. They also listed in their early catalogs a 500 grain patch bullet.

Any information on the original paper patched bullets would be appreciated, thank you.

DT

[Stephen Borud]

I will post a good picture of some original 50 bullets for you. I’ve hunted with the 50 2 1/2” and the 50 1 3/4 both killing with the 473 grain bullet. Between the guns they have racked up around fifteen animals.

SB

[Stephen Borud]

I took this picture at the Cody Museum

[Distant Thunder]

Stephen,

Thank you for the picture. Can you tell me how long your 473 grain bullet is? My hope is to assemble a good accurate load based on that bullet primarily for banging steel gongs, but hunting is not out of the question.

My rifle is a C. Sharps 1874 with a Badger 1 in 26 twist and it shoots paper patched very well. I bought this rifle for hunting over 20 years ago. The little .50 - 1 3/4 proved to be a great hunting cartridge, but my eyes are not as good as they were back then. Now I plan to set the rifle up as a reasonable example of an early buffalo rifle and I'd like to use the 473 grain bullet for my loads. The more information I can gather on the original bullet the closer I will be able to replicate it, which I think would be really cool.

The little .50 has always fascinated me and wanting to know what could be done with this early and very successful center fire cartridge was why I chose it many years ago. Now I want to see what it's capable of with one of the original bullets, the 473 grain paper patch.

Thanks!

DT

[mherth]

DT, What PP load are you using in your 50-70? I have a Lone Star roller in 50-70 with a 1 in 24 ROT Green Mountain barrel. It shoots 500 grain greasers quite well but I’ve been thinking about trying PP.

[Distant Thunder]

I've tried a couple different designs and weights of PPB in my .50 - 1 3/4, but the one I've had the best results with is a 545 grain bullet. Because of the way my chamber is cut it works best if I use bullets patched to groove diameter, .510". I can still seat these out far enough to get 80 grains of 2F powder in the case, which is plenty for my needs.

I have a few grease groove bullets that all shoot well too, but I prefer to shoot paper patched.

DT

[bobw]

Jim, do you have an overbored freebore in your rifle? My LRE is in the 70xx range and has an overbored (larger than groove dia ) freebore apprx 3/8" in length. These can be made to shoot by patching to groove diameter.

[Distant Thunder]

Bob,

I measured my freebore at .5105" and the groove diameter at .5103". The freebore is .350" long. The barrel is a 1 in 26 twist. Bullets are typically about .964" to 1.257" O.A.L.. I size the grease bullets and patch the paper patched to .5100" and everything shoots pretty well. Accuracy is not a problem.

I'm hoping to get information on the original paper patched bullets Sharps loaded in their 50.-1 3/4" cartridge. I want to cut a mold for their 473 grain paper patch bullet as close as I can. The 500 grain would also be of interest, but I wanted to work with the 473 grain version. They loaded the same bullets in the .50-2 1/2" also.

I just want to replicate the 473 grain bullet. Does anyone know the dimensions of that bullet? The length? I could copy the nose shape from a picture. The better the contrast in the picture the closer I can copy it.

Thanks.

[bobw]

Stephen Borud and Orville Loomer probably know more about the shape and dimensions of the original 473 gr ppb for the 50-2.5" than anyone. The 50-70 and the 45-70 were not chambered as tight as the other Sharps cartridges were,so they could use Gov't greaser ammo any time they needed too. The 420 gr 45-2.1 ppb load was patched to .456" and tapered, it would not surprise me if the original ppb's in the 50-1 3/4" weren't tapered as well and patched to almost groove dia at the base. I have a Rapine 500-500 ppb mold that is parallel sided at 500 grains
@.500" dia and patch to.510" with Bienfang vellum paper, they shoot great in my 50-3 1/4". They kill buffalo fine,if you want to try some let me know. bobw

[Distant Thunder]

Bob,

Thank you for the offer of bullets to try, but I'd hate for you to go to all that trouble. I have 3 paper patched molds and they shoot very well patched to groove diameter. One is a 520 grain, then there's my 545 grain which shoots the best of the 3, and I also have a 595 grain that shoot well. I also have the Lyman 515141, the 515142 which casts big at .516", a very nice 510 grain elliptical gg I made myself, a 575 grain Brooks mold that shoot unbelievably well, and a 525 grain NEI mold that used for hunting years ago. There may be 1 or 2 others I've forgotten about.

So I have a few molds and many of those were bought or made to try to stretch the distance of my .50-1 3/4". It's not really a long range cartridge, not for me, 500 yards being about the max. Now as I was setting this "old" Sharps up as a more traditional buffalo rifle I was just thinking I should also set up to load a more traditional bullet, the 473 pp is perfect.

I'd like to hear from Orville and more from Stephen too on any particulars of the original loads. I've searched the internet, but that gives little of what I want and waaaay too much of what I don't want. This forum seemed like a good spot to inquire.

I'm sure I can get pretty close with an estimate of length for a 473 grain ppb and I have the picture from Stephen as an example of the nose shape. If that's all I have I can make it work, but if there's more info I would surely like to hear it, see it, or tell where I can read it.

Thanks for replying and your offer. I'm probably foolish to turn down a chance to shoot someone else's bullets!

DT