Original paper patched bullet designs?

[Distant Thunder]

Kurt,

I've had so many people ask me about what paper I would recommend to use and the paper I use for my .40 and .45 is no longer made that I wanted to give the 55Y a try. I don't like telling people to use this or that when I have no idea how it actually works, just that others are using it and it seems to work.

I've played a little with several different papers, but until you get to a match you don't really know how it goes. So I designed this .50 caliber bullet to work specifically with the 55Y. I had no problem chambering with it during my limited load development, about 35 rounds, but it was a bit of a problem during the match. Again, I like the paper and will continue to use it I just need to find out how to make it work.

I dry patch both my .45-70 and my .40-65 with my 9 lb. 100% cotton onion skin, but that is .0018-.0020" thick. The .40-65 bullet is a 2-diameter bullet and the forward part of the patch is very loose on the bullet. I've never had a problem chambering those bullet while shooting silhouette with it's limited time element. That paper is much more durable. Often the inner wrap is not cut completely through and my confetti is not fine little pieces like some say you need. That rifle and bullet are probably the most accurate I have ever shot with paper patched. It is quiet capable of 1/2 MOA for 5 shots at 200 yards.

With the 55Y I can't find anything left of the patch when I'm shooting over grass except the long narrow strip that is folded over the base. Now I understand that that yellow paper is hard to see in the grass, but if there were any bigger pieces I'd find one you'd think. The fold overs I did find yesterday were all in a small area about 10-12 feet down range and 6 feet off to my left. There was a pretty good breeze blowing in over my right shoulder while I was shooting.

I'm a believer in sizing my ppb, I size all my .40 and .45 caliber bullets, not much just enough to smooth out the paper and press the fold over flat. It sure works for me with them.

I think it was a successful outing, I got my sight settings and found out what the limitations were of my sight under those conditions. I also discovered what problems I have with my bullet/paper and now I'm learning what I need to do to hopefully correct them. And I had a bunch of fun shooting my little .50 with paper patched bullets!

Of course I got very "helpful" advise from all the greasers at the match! My thanks to those guys! NOT!


DT

[Distant Thunder]

Don,

I had 3 hours yesterday on the drive home to think about what I might do different with this 55Y and wet patching, arrrrrrrrggggg……, was one thing that came to mind. I can possibly tolerate it for this bullet because I won't be shooting that many through the .50 anyway. Probably 2 or 3 matches a year. I enjoy the process of working through the problems. It's obvious that 55Y has excellent accuracy potential so it will be worth working with.

"I have my Brooks dual diameter 40 cal bullet mould, it's similar to yours. I have about 20 of those patched and loaded ready to try in the CSA heartburn 40-70. Just need to get a few free moments to go give it a whirl."

I don't know anything about your rifle you'll use that bullet in or what your chamber looks like, but for me it has been very accurate right out of the gate. The drawing I gave you was of course designed to fit my chamber and the 18-twist barrel, but the dimensions could easily be adjusted to fit any .40 caliber chamber and the more the popular 16 twist. I would think it would be an excellent choice for a Browning .40-65 and anyone wanting to shoot silhouette with that type of rifle. It has held up well for me in some pretty twitchy winds out to 600 yards and competes well against even the .45s.

Keep me in the loop as to how it works for you, I am very interested. Also please bring some of those bullets when you come to Lodi next year for the Cup match, I'd really like to see one and how it look from a real mold maker.

I am thinking of posting some information about how I go about designing my 2-diameter ppb so others who are interested can work with the idea or chime in with their ideas of how it works. Would that be a good subject for this forum do you think? I like this forum and the people here and that discussion might spark some activity without the pissing contest.

I'm just starting the process of making a mold for a friend who wants to give the 2-diameter concept a try. It should be an excellent chance to put the information up somewhere for others to see and add to.

DT

[Kurt]

Jim since the type writer went obsolete so also went the copy with it.
My choice for paper was always 100% or 75% cockle finish Southworth Paper. It was like a ink blotter, it would let a drop of water blead through and it ran from 7 1/2 pound to 10 pound. The weight did not match the thickness. Some 7 1/2# could be thicker like .0018" and some of the 9# could be .0016" thick but the paper say 9# that would let a drop of water blead through I seldom found the inner wrap with just slice cuts. I really don't see any difference in accuracy with my loads shot were I find large pieces of the wrap compared to the strips. I think the patch from the high speed videos I watched that the air friction as the projectile clears the muzzle is what is tearing the patch appart and with the large pieces is already clear of the projectile with in a foot or two at the most in front of the muzzle.

I have cartridge barrels with shallow grooves of three thousands to six thousands and what steers me away from paper not as thick as the groove is deep with two wraps is the rough lead coated driving edge of the lands is covered with lead especially if I don't use a lube wad or using a lube wad and wiping after every shot that cleans off the lube when wiping. Blow tubing I don't find the lead build up, I really think it's the tin and not so much as lead, but I cant say this for sure.
When I order my mould I order it for the paper I use and I have mentioned this when a question is asked what diameter bullet should I get. I say get the paper then order the mould.


Most of my rifles will shoot to the point of aim with the first shot fired and if I start seeing vertical show up I know that something is wrong with the bore conditions or I have a change with the cases gripping the bullet on release, but it is most likely bore conditions changing.

[Don McDowell]

Jim I think a dual diameter thread would be good.
One thing I have found over the years shooting these dual diameters, they're not as picky about chamber type as flat sided bullets.

On the 55y paper, Rick sent along a bunch of rounds with the heavy barrel 110 that were loaded with the .446 money bullet wet wrapped with 55y, and they shoot quite well considering how long they have been loaded.

[Distant Thunder]

Don,

I'll try to get myself organized (that's the hard part) enough to present something other people can following without too much difficulty and start putting the info on here in a new thread this coming week. I just finished gathering all the important info last week so the timing is good. With so many people wanting to try pp in their greaser chambers it should be of use to some to see the process I use. I'm not an expert by any means, but I'm finding this design to be a very good choice in certain rifle, especially those with freebore. I hope to learn now too.

DT

[Distant Thunder]

Kurt,

Absolutely, I always say get your paper first and build the mold to fit that. I hope my choice of 55Y was not a mistake. The lack of lube in my loads is one reason I like the water/oil mix for wiping, I know it's leaving lube (oil) in my bore for the next shot and that can't hurt.

DT