.44-77 PP bullets.

[beltfed]

Jim, how much do you have to patch those 431 bullets up to?
I had forgotten what that Krieger barrel bore and groove dimensions?
Is it the .434 or 438 bore? And 0.446 groove.
I have an assortment of thicker paper. Some even 100% cotton bond.
Strathmore 370-9 is about 0.002" . Would that add enough?
I could send you a sample .
beltfed/arnie

[Distant Thunder]

Don,

Yes, I know I have some of those 2-D bullets from you. I have a lot of bullets and I'll sort through testing them and keep good notes after my fireforming is done and I do some preliminary development with the ones from my BACO adjustable bullet. I'll need to figure out what the rifle likes for primers, powder and wads. Then I'll do testing with those 2-D bullets I got from you and the all PPB I got from Kurt. That will give me an idea for what bullets I want to use for the various kinds of shooting I hope to do, silhouette, Creedmoor and hunting.

None of that will happen until this panicdemic thing is over and Shiloh can go back to work and hopefully finish my rifle. It's probably fairly close to being done, I know it has been chambered so it shouldn't take two long once things return to ?normal?.

The other thing I'll need to figure out is what paper I will be using. I have both 9# and several brands of 7#. They all work, but one may work better than the others. Time will tell. I have used my 9# with good success and my thinking always starts there. I have had good results with the 7# too, but I haven't used it as much as the 9#.

I'll be asking for your help once I get started working up loads so do go too far. I have printed out many of your posts as well as those of Kurt's. I am in the process of reading all that information again and making notes on your good loads, that will give me a solid starting point. This .44-77 is my first bottleneck cartridge, but I'm not real concerned about it, I should be able to get it up and running with your help and the help of others on this forum. There is a lot of experience here.

[Distant Thunder]

Arnie,

The .44 caliber Krieger barrel is sold as being .438/.466". My 9# onionskin adds about .007" with two wraps, but I like to size after patching and a .432" diameter bullet would probably be best. Then I can size to a perfect fit to my barrel once I have the rifle back. I haven't even seen the barrel yet, it was shipped directly from BACO to Shiloh.

If I use 7# paper then I think a .434" bullet would work best.

I really just have to be patient and sit and wait for things to finish up. Then I'll have more than enough to do. There may not be any matches for the early summer and maybe not at all this year! That really screws up my plans for this rifle and this year, everyone else's plans too I'm sure.

[Don McDowell]

Jim the 44-77 is an extremely easy cartridge to work with. Either patched or greasers. When thing got super interesting was coming up with an accurate load that met the velocity requirements of the Whittington center. Then a huge learning curve about bullet length v barrel twist. Also bullet diameter and paper thickness. Small bullets thick paper works ok for some things, but can give you a bunch of unexplained dirt diggers and sailing over annies,,, Lots of things seem to work , right up until the time you start hunting that x ring on the LR target.
I've been using a lot of the Seth Cole 55y, and liking it quite well in all the calibers, I've had numerous occasions in load testing that while 55w shoots well, the 55y tightens groups up a bunch.

I am in about the same boat as you, I know my 77 was getting really close to being shipped,, but now we wait, some more...

[Distant Thunder]

Don,

So you're waiting on a .44-77 from Shiloh too! I know I'm not the only one.

If I told of the history I have with this rifle you would not be surprised that it is hung up in a SNAFU yet again. For some reason it has been cursed from the beginning for me. I've had that rifle for 28 years. It is one of the rifles Kirk built in the first year after taking over Shiloh.
It is the rifle I learn how to load and shoot black powder with. When I get it back this time I'm not letting it out of my sight again. It started life as a .45-70. I later had it rebarreled to .45-90 and now to .44-77. It shot very well for me both as a .45-70 and a .45-90. I'm sure it will shoot well as a .44-77.

About the only thing that hasn't happen with this rifle is, I never rolled a wagon over crossing a swollen river and had the rifle slip away from me and be lost. It has now been lost twice in things totally out of my control and I've had to work at it and wait to get it back.

It'll happen, I just need to give it some time.

It will be a good story to tell the grandkids some day!

[Don McDowell]

Jim, got to love those rifles with a tale to tell.
The 77 I am referring to in this time frame is a 1877 with most of the bells and whistles, except I didn't use the fancy wood. Chamber is 45-90, and I as hoping to have it to go to Phoenix, and when that didn't quite happen the hope was to break it in at Alliance followed by Lodi a few days later... Now that doesn't look like a doable... so I'll wait.
I was very happy to learn that loads that chambered and operated fine in a Shiloh standard chamber, work fine in my highwall with it's Eron Ahmer chamber,( another shooters CPA took a dump at Phoenix and he and his partner were trying to use the same rifle, I let Rick use my highwall for the majority of the match) so the hope is there will be no need to keep separate rounds for each rifle..
But yes I do have another 44-77 in the pipeline, should of been done around the end of this year, but betting it'll be later.. It's a #1 , 32 inch standard weight barrel, using the same 7 degree lead reamer as on my #3 that shoots so well.

[beltfed]

  Draft DDEPPfor4477SBN17Tw080420.pdf (Size: 141.79 KB / Downloads: 15)
  DDEPP4410018twistforMS03222020.pdf (Size: 122.45 KB / Downloads: 13) Jim, here is the drg you and I discussed last August for your pending 17 twist 44/77.
thought Kurt and Don might like to see it in this discussion.
Also, FWIW, I also attached the bullet design for Matt Steckel's 44-100
18 twist.
beltfed/arnie

[Distant Thunder]

A '77 Sharps in .45-90 should be a hell of a long range rifle. If I were to order a '77 it would have all the bells and whistles. I don't usually go for too fancy, but that's just me.

In the back of my mind I've been kicking around the idea of a hunting weight Sharps chambered in .44-77. Something similar to Kurt's .44-77 but not with the crescent buttplate. I shot that rifle last August at Harris, MN and it would definitely make an excellent hunting rifle. In that type of rifle I would consider the 7 degree chamber.

Not saying that it would actually happen, but it would be very nice rifle. I'm thinking 30" standard weight barrel, straight grip, shotgun butt, plain wood and a single trigger. Maybe one notch up on the wood, maybe.

I'm just not sure one .44-77 is enough. Of course it would all depend on the funds becoming available. The good thing would be I would already have brass, dies, molds and all that little stuff that really adds up. The bonus would be that it would be a .44-77 and would exude COOL in abundance!

It always fun to dream.

[Don McDowell]

Nope 44-77's, 44-90st, and 45-90's are all like Lay's potato chips, you can't have just one. LOL
This 44-77 on order should serve for either target or hunting work, outside of the pewter nose cap and checkered steel but plate it's pretty plain jane. I really like the 32 inch barrel.

[Don McDowell]

Arnie, I haven't had very good results with patched bullets over .435 diameter, in the 44's. In a Shiloh 19 twist anything over 1.3 inches long can be problematic if the crosswinds start acting up. Longer may work well with the added horsepower of a 44-90 bn tho.