New P.P mold for 45-70

[bruce moulds]

randy,
experience has shown a bullet 1.5" long will be stable in an 18" twist at closer ranges.
however at longer ranges, 1.450" is a better max length.
if brooks can do it an optimum length for a nose is 1.5 calibres.
keep safe,
bruce.

[bruce moulds]

further thought.
if deep seating the bullet so that 65 gn powder is used then 1.4" might be better.
if using a full case of powder (80 + gns), 1.450 would be o.k.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Distant Thunder]

Randy,

Every rifle has its own preferences, but I can tell you what worked best for me in my Shiloh .45-90.

Probably the three most important things for getting good accuracy with paper patched bullets are, bullet length, the fit of the patched bullet in the bore, and the paper used for patching.

Good paper may be a little hard to find these days. When I got serious about paper patching I was told by a friend, who was experienced in long range shooting, what to get for paper, 9 lb. 100% cotton onion skin. Unfortunately the brand of paper I bought then is no longer made. I am lucky to have enough to last me as long as I'm going to be shooting, so I can't really say what papers that are available today and are known to work well. I've just never had to work with any other paper to get it to work. Other paper patchers can help with that.

My paper is .002" thick. I dry wrap and I find that two wraps adds .007" to the diameter of my cast bullets. For my Shiloh's .450" bore I used a .443" cast bullet. This gave me a .450" bullet, maybe just a little bit bigger. The important thing is that there was just slight resistance when I push the bullet into the bore. This "snug" fit is one of the keys to accurate shooting with paper patched bullets.

The only real way to know if you bullet cast diameter patched with you thickness of paper is a good fit in your bore is to push a patched bullet into the bore ahead of the chamber. That is where you want the fit to be right.

If your rifle has a long freebore section then fit is a bit different, but that's another subject. For most Shiloh rifles with a grease groove chamber the fit should be determined by the bore.

If your Shiloh has a 1 in 18 twist like my .45-90 you'll be best served by a bullet that is about 1.430" to 1.440" long, and not more than 1.450" for sure. That length will be stable in most conditions that you're likely to be shooting in. You can go longer, but stability will be on the edge and in some conditions the wind will make you pull your hair out. A lot of shooters use a bullet a little to long for their twist and they can shoot well in light winds, but get in trouble when the wind is quartering and shifting. I tend to error on the shorter side and my bullets have held good in some pretty rough conditions.

Like bruce said, an elliptical nose design is going to be a good choice for bp velocities and I will add that it shouldn't be too pointed of an elliptical nose for the same reason that the OAL shouldn't be too long, it's not the best choice in tough conditions.

If I were going to start paper patching today I think I would buy a mold in an elliptical design.443" in diameter and 1.430" long. Then I would get several different available papers that are in the .002" thickness area and find the one that worked best. Then I'd buy enough of that paper to last as long as I planned to be shooting that rifle.

Don't hesitate to use a push through type sizing die after the bullets are patched just to get a good uniform fit to a specific bore. That's what I do now and it works well, very well.

Getting a sizing die to match the bore of your rifle just might be the best way to get the size you want, quicker than trying every paper you can get and cheaper than buying molds until you get the right cast diameter. Buy the best paper you can find, highest cotton content around .002", and order a mold at .444" and a die at you bore diameter. You can polish the die to adjust the size easy enough.

There are other things to try that can help fine tune a paper load to your rifle, but that would be best left until you up and shooting successfully and what I've laid out here should get you there.

Again, this is just what has worked well for me in several rifles now, others may have different advice and results.

Jim Kluskens

[Randy Bohannon]

Jim,

Thank you for your time and after all I have read and now understand you have designed my bullet. I really wanted to understand what it is I am trying to do. You tied it up very nicely for me.Merry Chritsmas

[Distant Thunder]

Randy,

One other thing to remember with bore diameter paper patched bullets is to seat them very shallow in the case. I would not seat them deeper than .100" into the case mouth. To do so defeats the design of a "bore diameter" bullet, they need to be as far into the bore as possible. Shallow seating gives the best possible alignment between the bullet and the bore, which what you want.

You will find that sizing just the case mouth to be a snug fit on the patched bullet will make handling the loaded cartridges much easier. Size it just enough to allow you to pick up the cartridge without the bullet falling out. I believe sizing the mouth this way also helps with accuracy. The case only needs to be sized to the same depth that the bullet is in the case, .100-.125".

A taper sizing die or Lee factory crimp die works well for this sizing and can be done after the bullet is seated in the case. Just don't "size" the mouth so that it marks the paper, that's too much and can cause other problems.

Glad to help out and Merry Christmas to you as well!