Paper Patch question

[Dave Roelle]

I've gathered up the necessities for trying my had at paper patch

BACO 500 grain creedmore 0.444 30/1

Tracing paper that with two wraps give me a 0.4505 wrapped diameter

About the length and postition of the patch-------how much "fold over" onto the bullet base is necessary ? and wrapping just to the ogive break seems to be about right ?

I'll have a go this weekend and see what happens after i get the patch template worked out

Oh 45/70------any reccomendation for a starting powder charge ?

thought i'd try one of Kurt's wad stacks

bout 0.120--0.150 bullet in the case ?



Thanks for the feedback

Dave

[Don McDowell]

Just enough fold over that the paper barely meets at the center of the bullet. Yes just to the break of the ogive, if you go further you may have some troubles, you can go a bit shorter, but if you get to short you will pick up some leading.
70-75 grs of whatever 2f you got hanging around.
Just a .060 fiber wad isn't a bad place to start, wipe between shots with 50-50 rv antifreeze and water.
Probably have to seat deeper into the case to get the round to chamber without rumpling the front of the patch. Seating depth is going to depend on what you, the rifle and the bullet can all agree upon at the target.

[bruce moulds]

dave,
there is no right and no wrong, just what works.
i find that patching to the point where the ogive starts is a good place to start.
i do not let the patch meet in the middle of the base, leaving about 1/2 of the diameter of the bullet showing.
if you want to seat with neck tension, a twisted tail is simpler, but you need a special bullet for this.
your 30:1 bullet could bump up quite a bit on the nose, creating the need to patch further up. just don't go so far that the patch can't cut at the nose end.
only trial and error can show you this.
always study your confetti in detail.
1/8" in the case is ideal for target ammo.
if you get fliers using strong powder, try 1f.
i have found that even 10:1 alloy will usually bump up ok, but use 16:1 mostly. in the day, alloy used in target bullets seemed to be between 12:1 and 16:1 when target shooting with pp bullets.
while the above technique seems to work wiping on targets, hunting is another ballgame
deeper seating of the bullet and grease wads are better, but i have no experience there yet.
for target shooting, sizing the brass, then using the appropriate 2 diameter expander for either minimal or no neck tension works well.
bullets flopping around in loose cases is a pain.
good luck in this.
done right, pp bullets can shoot as well as, or better than, greasers, and when working well are far superior at long range due to superior b.c.
keep safe,
bruce,

[Dave Roelle]

Hey Don and Bruce----------------thanks for the direct feedback !!!

Bruce:

I can mix alloys and play around with that easily------i'll see what happens this weekend with the 30/1

i have a full machine shop at my disposal and so have ground up a custom expander that just lets me finger seat the bullet as currently wrapped

I fully understand "what the gun likes"--------it's a Shiloh #1 and seems pretty easy to please

Thanks for the feedback on the patch placement----------the reason for wrapping at the ogive break is pretty straightforward------------the wrap around the base corner was not--and of course opinions will differ based on individuals experience----------soooooooooooooo going to wrap say 0.150 around the base corner and see what happens--that should leave som exposed lead in the center of the bullet base

Wad stacks are all over the place when i research them over several individuals and web sights, seems that quite a few folks use a short lube cookie for its sealing advantages------soooooooooooo i'm getting a set up arranged to cast some lube sheets also.

Again thanks

Dave

[Don McDowell]

Dave I've found the Muzzleloader original lubed felt wads to be as good as anything. I buy mine from Midway but you should be able to get them at a well stocked muzzleloader shop, I think Sportsmans Warehouse handles them also.
The NAPA rubberized cork gasket material that Kenny told us about works real well with those felt wads.

[Dave Roelle]

Gotcha Don--------------we have a hat maker here in town that i know from church---i'm gonna hit him up for scrap materials -------------- be a deal to have to spec "5X Beaver wads lubed with mystery slickum"

At least i'll have a bunch of materials to play with-------gonna try simple first, just a 0.060 veggi between the powder charge and the patched slug and go from there

i would suppose i should be on the watch for burnt paper that would indicate a gas leak------we shall see

should i expect rifling cut completely through both patch layers ?---------so just strips of patch is the "confetti" ?

any other key indicaters to keep an eye open for ?

keep well and stay safe

Dave

[Ironramrod]

Dave, I have a booklet on proper paper patching of bullets written by Orville Loumer that is really good. Shiloh used to carry it in stock for $7, but I can't seem to find it now. If you don't have one, you are interested and Shiloh dropped it from their website; I'll be glad to photocopy mine and drop it in the mailbags to you.

It is a good read, and has a good number of helpful tips on precision paper patching. It certainly was a good start for me.

Regards
IR

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Ditto on Orville's Little booklet, excellent read.

I patch just enough to leave about open spot about the size of a pencil eraser in the middle of the bullet, Patching with 16-1 the bullet will bump up too the top of the patch and I patch just below the ogive.

KW
The Lunger

[Dave Roelle]

Thanks Ramrod and Kenny------------i had a nice chat with Orville at the NRA show---------he's a great guy and gave me some good direction for sure.

I'm working on a patch board that will let my fat fingers deal with the precise position of the patch and the slug now----that thin paper with pointy ends can be a bit hard to control.

Again THANKS

Dave

[Dave Roelle]

Well spent a few hours at the 100 yard line this morning---------the cool factor is something with paper patch loads--this is a public range and so has lots of different shooters ----i got comments of "Paper Bullets?????"--(i didn't even fields that one) to, "that can't work"------

Milk carton over powder and a "Wasserburger Wad" under the slug shot to about 5 inches at 100------had some blow back on the outside of the cases-----------confetti and some pieces that were "browned" ,i'm betting on gas leaking in both instances

Seems the outer wrap confettied really well----like can't find the pieces cause they blew away---have some postage stamp size pieces, that show some rifling marks that did not cut through the patch------------also the wraps around the base of the bullets were cut almost all the way around the base-------i'm guessing that travel over the chamber transition and obturation snipped that corner.




Second test was the same components with a 0.150 lube cookie between the milk carton wad and the "Wasserburger Wad"

No blowby this time amd no browned paper

The group closed to 3-4 inches at 100 yards-----seems pretty good for a first rattle out of the box-------

shooting was off bags on the bench---------betcha it closes up off sticks










other load details are

remmington brass fit to chamber length---a
nealed case mouths
CCI BR2
72 grains Swiss 1 1/2
i picked up the tracing paper at a local art supply-----"Masters Touch" measure 0.0017 thick

BACO 500 grain Creedmore 30/1

dry wrapped

barrel looks like it has been polished inside-----------NO LEAD


next test will vary the charge from 70 to perhaps 78 grains

and some more patch wrapping practice will help with uniformity

Thanks for everyones help-----------always looking for feedback to improve

Dave