Don, how much blackhorn did you end up going with, seems like ever gun likes something a little different, I have some loaded with the saeco 645 and 33 grains topped with pufflon but have not had a chance to see how they work. Dave

Dave I ended up at 37 grs with a .060 fiber wad. Sure hard to arque with the accuracy

Has any one used blackhorn 209 in a 40-65?

Pat here's a link to their load data, in case that no one chimes in with their loads
https://www.blackhorn209.com/wp-content/...gedata.pdf

(12-30-2019, 01:57 PM)Don McDowell Wrote: Pat here's a link to their load data, in case that no one chimes in with their loads
https://www.blackhorn209.com/wp-content/...gedata.pdf

Thank you for the info.

I won a can of 209 at the Q back in 08 or 09 with cleaner and they have not been opened yet.
I might load some in there .44-40 to see if it works.

Looking at their loading data for the large capacity cases they recommend a over the powder wad and a dacron filler.
I hope for those that read that put the wad over the filler under the bullet and not under the filler over the powder.

Don you ask a very serious question and deserve a serious answer. For the past season or so we’ve had a fellow shooter at our steel gong matches cleaning our clock using nothing but said 209. I’m prepping to compete with him with same next summer. So far my most successful loads are at manufactures MAX recommended loads. In 38-55 @ 23.0 grs wt. & 322 gr. Custom slug. In 40-65 31.0 grs wt. & 420 gr. Postel. In 45-70 @ 33.0 grs wt & 530 Postel. All of these loads are made up in fired brass (cleaned etc.) the 209 is weighed on RCBS auto scale. The brass is primed with Fed 215s (all calibers) and one caliber diameter Vegi wad is placed between powder with one paper disk at bullet base. In each of the three calibers the bullet seated to crimp groove sets right on powder. There is no air space and no “fillers” need be fussed with. The factory data puts each of these loads at 1100-1200 FPS. The key factor and one should get out their Chronograph and verify is that whatever speed near max you can find loads that produce single digit Standard Deviation. I’ll gladly work with this sort of consistency VS max velocity. That is what the little knobs on ladder sight are for. I also found that my sight setting for given distances out to 500 yds are very repeatable for different sessions. One example recently two fellow shootist and I stopped by club range with my 38-55 HW. We set up a 12 inch steel gong at 300 yds. I placed the sights on established settings. Then to warm barrel I put one round into berm. My first shot on 300 yd gong was a ringer as were 8 more (must have placed my tong in wrong cheek on 1 ? Next shooter ran 10 for 10, our mate managed 7 for 10. We retired for coffee job well done. Best regards. M2

I truly like using blackhorn 209 when I shot at the gong shoots. I have had to load above the recommended max by a couple grains in both of my 45-70's. The 45-70's I have just a little to much recoil for sweat pea.

The quoted loads above are in my factory chambered rifles. A good point was made that if you have "long throat" in your rifle one could seat the bullet forward and gain a few FPS. What was not underlined is that according to manufacturer 209 does not respond smoothly to compression. Hence the recommendation to use chrono to sort out SD. This may take +/- a few grains in your application. Again IMHO the key is to have bullet seated on powder at any load. One other finding is the recoil from 209 loads seems more of a push instead of a kick with BP at similar velocities. Good luck with this experimentation.
M2