Accuracy/Velocity Info

[Freedom]

Hi,

New here, but I see a lot of familar names.

Been reloading for 30 yrs and shooting the Sharps for 22 years. I don't shoot the matches much, mostly time/$$ issues and the fact that I have a personal range that gets me shooting almost every day. I only have targets to 880yards, but have run the 50BMG out of gas on the property. (4000yrds+/-)

I reciently started to really work on Blackpowder use at long(er) ranges..

I have a few questions, and I would sure apprciate some advise...

I have a pilots certificate and learned through aeronautics that if you double (2x) the velocity you will quadruple (4x) your drag. With this info, I question the idea of extra velocity being helpful at longer ranges with the Sharps... But....

My recent load is: 45-70, 74 sharps 1/18twist
61gr Swiss 1 1/2
24" drop tube
535 Gr Lyman Postell
210Fed Primer
Win Case, fire formed, slight neck size
.060 gasket wad+Newsprint
Hand seated bullet, No compression.

With with this load in my 45-70, I just shot a 6 shot group at 300 yards that measured 2.25". It (was actually 9 shots but the first was clean barrel, the 2nd gave me a sight change and I pulled one terrible...which left me 6 clean shots into a nice 2 1/4" circle@300yds off the bench)

This same load seems to really fall apart at 680yrds...I can keep all shots on a 20" circle but no group seems to form??

My ???'s

Will extra velocity help with stablizing at the extended ranges? Or will the (extra) drag issues slow the fast bullet so fast that the 1100fps load is about the same velocity as the 1250fps load when they reach 700+yards?? Is it worth it for the extra fps at the muzzle?

The other ? is:
Sound Barrier (mach)...I know that this can cause severe turbulence when it is broken and when the bullet slows back through it...Is is better to get below Mach sooner or later???

Thanks for any help!! Please feel free to question or add infomation to this as it would sure help me out.

Freedom!

[Lumpy Grits]

WELCOME!!
How much are you compressing the powder?
I would up the charge weight to 67-68 grns and try an .060" thick fiber wad.
Then that load should hold up better.
What you have now is run'n of steam.
What are you doing to control fouling?
Gary

[Don McDowell]

You need to get the velocity with that postel up over 1200 if you can do so and keep the accuracy.
I have come to favor bullets at 480-500 grs for the 45-70. Their length seem to be better suited to the horsepower available from the powder charge in a 45-70 case.

Also if you take a look back at what the old dead guys mostly used, with a few exceptions , if the powder charge wasn't above 100 grs the bullet weight didn't go over 500. Just something to chew on.

Welcome to the forum, that's some good looking country you're standing in.

[Freedom]

Thanks guys! So it seems the thing to do is get things moving faster???

No compression
I didn't think going from 61gr to 64gr would give me much more velocity?
Will try the .60 wads
3 blow tube breaths for fouling...(but it is still pretty cold here in MT)

I didn't know that velocity played that big a roll. I thought drag and sound barrier might play a bigger roll in destablizing the bullets since it's not really feasable to stay super-sonic for very long with the Sharps.

For the lighter bullet, I have always shot a 430gr Flatpoint bullet out of my sharps. It has always served me well, but I have never really tried to shoot/get match type results from it. I always hunted with it and it does the job well. I have been able to kill gophers (when you can see them standing) at 100yards so I figured it was good enough. I once shot the load at 300 and all shots stayed on a 6" bull, so that was just fine for elk.

I have an old dishwasher at 800yrds that I used to play with and it has plenty of holes in it from the 430's... Mostly shot WW alloy with Varget powder since I never took the time to really get BP to shoot well

I thought that the big Postell was a good choice if I wanted to do some BP shooting at a few matches. I plan to make it to Quigley this year so I figured I should try to see what I could get done with Swiss powder.

Have been quite pleased so far...but just can't get things together at the farther ranges(500+)

Just compressed 70gr Swiss behind the Postell, but the wind really ruined any chance I had at testing...took 11 shots with only one on paper at 687yards..but the one that hit paper was center of the 18" circle..lol. Doesn't say much since the other ten are "who-knows-where" on the prairie!

[Don McDowell]

Most folks shooting Swiss 1.5 in the 45-70 settle around 68-69 grs.
What happens with these big ol punkin bullets is they're like a top, as long as you got them spinning at the right rpms they'll stay pretty stable, but like a top , when the spin slows down it starts to wander and then falls over.
1180 -1300 fps seems to be the magic window for hurling these big hunks of alloy at long range.
Maybe we can all get together at the Quigley. It's a grand social event to visit with folks you meet on the internet.

[Shadow 4]

Hi,

New here, but I see a lot of familar names.

Been reloading for 30 yrs and shooting the Sharps for 22 years. I don't shoot the matches much, mostly time/$$ issues and the fact that I have a personal range that gets me shooting almost every day. I only have targets to 880yards, but have run the 50BMG out of gas on the property. (4000yrds+/-)

I reciently started to really work on Blackpowder use at long(er) ranges..

I have a few questions, and I would sure apprciate some advise...

I have a pilots certificate and learned through aeronautics that if you double (2x) the velocity you will quadruple (4x) your drag. With this info, I question the idea of extra velocity being helpful at longer ranges with the Sharps... But....

My recent load is: 45-70, 74 sharps 1/18twist
61gr Swiss 1 1/2
24" drop tube
535 Gr Lyman Postell
210Fed Primer
Win Case, fire formed, slight neck size
.95 gasket wad+Newsprint
Hand seated bullet, No compression.

With with this load in my 45-70, I just shot a 6 shot group at 300 yards that measured 2.25". It (was actually 9 shots but the first was clean barrel, the 2nd gave me a sight change and I pulled one terrible...which left me 6 clean shots into a nice 2 1/4" circle@300yds off the bench)

This same load seems to really fall apart at 680yrds...I can keep all shots on a 20" circle but no group seems to form??

My ???'s

Will extra velocity help with stablizing at the extended ranges? Or will the (extra) drag issues slow the fast bullet so fast that the 1100fps load is about the same velocity as the 1250fps load when they reach 700+yards?? Is it worth it for the extra fps at the muzzle?

The other ? is:
Sound Barrier (mach)...I know that this can cause severe turbulence when it is broken and when the bullet slows back through it...Is is better to get below Mach sooner or later???

Thanks for any help!! Please feel free to question or add infomation to this as it would sure help me out.

Freedom!

I've got my 535 gr money bullet running at 1250fps+- it seems to work well to 1200 yrds. They gotta get to speed and be stable from the start or they never will be much good

[Freedom]

Most folks shooting Swiss 1.5 in the 45-70 settle around 68-69 grs.
What happens with these big ol punkin bullets is they're like a top, as long as you got them spinning at the right rpms they'll stay pretty stable, but like a top , when the spin slows down it starts to wander and then falls over.
1180 -1300 fps seems to be the magic window for hurling these big hunks of alloy at long range.
Maybe we can all get together at the Quigley. It's a grand social event to visit with folks you meet on the internet.

The toy "Top" analogy makes a lot of sense. I plan to have a leathergoods booth at the Quigley, (if I can get enough stuff made..lol) So hope to see your there! Stop by and introduce yourself.

I've got my 535 gr money bullet running at 1250fps+- it seems to work well to 1200 yrds. They gotta get to speed and be stable from the start or they never will be much good

1200yards...that is more like it!! So do you mind shareing your load??
Thanks

[Lumpy Grits]

Good folks to deal with......
http://www.sageoutfitters.com/page/page/7184637.htm

Harlan will be at the "Q" also.

Gary

[Lumpy Grits]

My .45-70 load is enough, 3F Goex to compress about .400" with a .060 fiber wad on top, and a coffee paper 'wad' under the powder.
Use a PJ C'moor bullet #45001 w/DGL lube, that I shoot as cast out of 30:1 alloy.
My 34" Hartford MV ave is 1254 fps.
Worked real well for my wife at the "Q" in 2010.
Gary

[Shadow 4]

[/quote]

1200yards...that is more like it!! So do you mind shareing your load??
Thanks
[/quote]

Don't mind at all, except I shoot the wrong powder .....