40-65 mould

[Kurt]

When I shoot my .50 the gong shoots I only use a GG in it. I never have been able to get the accuracy using a PP over the Brooks creedmoor bullet in this rifle.
But when I shot it I pushed a wet patch followed up with a dry and a third a dry patch with bullet lube well rubbed into the patch not heavy so it just left a film in the bore. Before he first shot the barrel was wiped clean and followed with a lubed patch.
This gave me a very low ES but at the end of the day at the Gong shoot I still seen gray on my cleaning patches. But I did not clean between the relays.

Arnie, I remember that day well.....sorry that I could not move that nine hole a 1/2" into the 10 ring.

[J.B.]

I havent had any experience with the RCBS or Saeco variations but my experience with the Lyman Snover ...was good up to about 600/700 yds and if there were any winds of consequence then it became inconsistent.. and I already had that covered with my own inconsistency ! My son and I were shooting his 1/16" twist Shiloh in 40/70 straight. That bullet and just about any grease groove bullet I tried or designed were prone to leading also. My final attempt was another design to Accurate moulds and I had two
versions cut. A grease groove with reduced forward bands # 40-390C and a dual diameter p/p mould #40-414P. They both deliver the goods ( if I'm dialled in ! ) but the paper patch has been the better of the two and the one I default to more often than not.
Now..am I any good at patching d/d bullets ? .. I'm learning.. but then that doesnt stop does it. ... Does it ? Just some options to consider.

rgds.. J.B.

[Steveu]

The saga continues. I was able to test 4 different bullets at 400 yards: Baco JIM410410M1, Saeco 740, Baco JIM409411C1 and a Pioneer Postel that weighs 454 gr. Long story short, the Saeco 740 shot the best along with the Pioneer a close second, Money then creedmoor. I think that the Pioneer did well in the 16 twist because it was a very calm day with a slight 3:00 wind, a quartering headwind might have not turned out as good. Anyhow, I am still on the hunt to solve the slight leading problem I have by switching to a 96-2-2 alloy. It has helped and I am planning to use some Swiss BP lube to see if that works and if it does not I will try some 95-2.5-2.5. I fired up the casting pot yesterday to pour some Saeco 640's and 740"s. On a whim I decided to check the fit of the 640 in the muzzle and it seemed a little tighter fit. So I dropped it in the muzzle of my 40-90sbn C. Sharps and it was even tighter. I measured the 640 and it was .3995, the 740 was .397. My question is, how tight does the bearing surface of the nose have to be?

I looked at getting some pin gauges to measure the bore diameter more accurately than trying to measure it with a cerrosafe cast with the tools I have on hand. I can get 5 minus pins for under $20 plus shipping.

Cheers,
Steve

[Kurt]

Steve,

From looking at recovered bullets, mostly PP but also GG and a very hard 1/16 mix of tin, antimony, lead patched .002" under bore diameter they showed up fully engraved into the grooves and no gas cuts.

Also I even loaded 5 with 5744 powder and they also filled the grooves. I know that some say that smokeless don't upset a lead bullet but I see different signs.

[Steveu]

Thanks Kurt.

[beltfed]

Steve,
Best allaround bullet length for full stability out to 1K in your 16 twist barrel,
is 1.325" long, Will be 380 grain or so depending on design
beltfed/arnie

[Kurt]

Arnie I agree with you with the length for the 16 twist .40.
I spent a lot of time with the .40's, .40-70 and the .40-65 with the 1/16 as well as a 1/14 and I have a plastic box full of moulds for the .40.
The best bullet design that works the best for the 1/14 and the 1/16 is a copy of an original design I sent to Steve Brooks and I told him to make a mould as close as he can with that profile and I told him to make it adjustable.
That mould is locked in at 1.325" and it outshoots any of the other profiles I have.
It's the left PP and the second is a Paul Jones GG and it also does well but not as good as the left one.
And the right photo is a .45 caliber I used for hunting in the Trap door carbine.

[Steveu]

Kurt and Arnie,
I agree with you on the length of 1.325”. The Saeco 740 ithat I am shooting is 1.320”. The mould is not perfectly round but it works. I have been reading some of Jim Kluskens posts about bullet lengths and twists and I am thinking of getting Brooks to make a copy of the 740 that is 1.33”.
Adding .01 to the base. The question I have for you is should there be a grease groove at the transition area where the case ends and the throat starts or a driving band? Right now it is a driving band.
Cheers,
Steve

P.S. the bullet weighs 409 grains with 96-2-2 alloy. The group is at 400 yards. The low shot was a sight adjustment.

[Kurt]

Steve,
My thought on this.
A bullet being out of round with out anything missing like a hole in the shank it will be as round as the bore in the barrel. You cant compress lead but it will flow filling that 2 or 3 thousands gap that is out of round and that bullet will be round.
As far as adding a groove above the front driving band?? I don't know what the benefit would be doing that, I never did it, but I have knurled the bullet to get some lube ahead of the obturation so dry lead don't smear the bore and it helped.
I would think that groove bump would cause some turbulence. I don't have a fast enough camera to get a shadow graph to check that out but again the front driving band would most likely do the same with out an extra groove ahead of it.
If you're concerned about the leading this is what I did to reduce it.
I saw a post on cast Boolits with this lube mix and I made some up and used that mix of Lee Liquid Alox mixed with Johnsons one stop liquid floor wax and dipped the bullet ogive in it and let it dry. This put a very thin film of a dry coating on the ogive that worked very well with the lead smear. Photo 2 like the revolver bullets.

[Steveu]

Kurt, what I am asking is should there be a grease groove exposed at the end of the case or should there be a driving band there. I have read that some thought is that there should be a grease groove there so as the bullet moves forward the area between the case mouth and the beginning of the throat gets filled with lube.

Cheers,
Steve