What's the best nose shape for long range shooting?

[Kurt]

Here is that ugly round nosed bumpy bullet dressed up a little
But that ugly bullet will be my silhouette bullet with the .44-77 Farmer Shiloh because it shoots so well.
   

[Distant Thunder]

Kurt,

That bullet is similar to the GG bullet that I used in my .44-100 ST at 485 grains. It was by far the most accurate bullet in that rifle and I tried several designs. I don't remember ever shooting past 600 yards, but it was good that far when nothing else held up well at all. I used it very successfully in silhouette for a couple of years.

Definitely not a bullet design that you pick out of a lineup for anything beyond the chicken line, but for me it shot well and knocked down steel critters well. I didn't really shoot mine in enough varying conditions to see how well it held up even to 600 yards.

The only reason I made this about long-range, 800 yards and beyond, is because I was thinking that the ability of a bullet to hold true in changing conditions would be more evident as the range was extended. Thinking it through a little more, I believe the lack of the abilities hold true in tough conditions start to show up at the ram line, so let's drop the range to 500 yards and beyond. Hopefully that will increase the sample size.

[Kurt]

Jim,
The last time I shot the Baker MT. Big Hill shoot two years ago I had a terrible time. I was using my .45-90 with a PP money bullet and working up ladder loads here at home it was shooting less than 3" groups at 200 yards several 5-10 shot groups. At Baker your shooting in a about 190 degree ark over a deep Canyon and I could not make 50% hits on the close targets 5-700 yards, I was ready to throw the towel in. My last target was the 1023 yard so I changed bullets. I pulled the money bullets and got out a box of patched postell nosed PP I had in the camper because I tend to run out of ammo shooting the Q and Baker so I can reload and switched bullets. They hit 10 out of 10 at the 1023 yards.
Shooting on that range you will shoot some of the toughest conditions you will find anywhere. I have seen range flags point straight up instead at 90 degrees there coming up the deep canyon walls.

[Kurt]

This is the bullet I used to finish at the 1023 yards

   

[rdnck]

It's hard to beat the Postell for day in and day out long range accuracy and consistency. Most of the newer bullet designs are simply Postell derivitaves in any case. I have tried the Jones Creedmoors, Brooks Postells, Brooks Creedmoors, this money bullet and that Metford shape, until I finally settled on a (gasp) 457132 Lyman Postell. It has, in my opinion, the real advantage of being a bore rider, and as such does not suffer from nose slump and deformation before it leaves the muzzle to as great of an extent as the later money designs. This leads to more consistency in obturation and the resulting bullet shapes leaving the barrel being more nearly identical from shot to shot. I think nose slump is a major accuracy killer, and the Lyman Postell deals with it better than a lot of other designs. My 2 cents. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[Distant Thunder]

That, again, is the sort of information I'm hoping to get with my questions. While the BC of the money bullet is higher, especially while it is above the speed of sound, the likely better accuracy of the Postell in Kurt's rifle and more stable flight through the transonic velocity range (1347-897 fps) enables that bullet to hold it's line to the target better.

Now if a money design is more accurate in a particle rifle then the higher BC might be a worth while advantage, but to go with a higher BC design that isn't as accurate may not be the best choice when keeping your shots in the target is the goal.

[Distant Thunder]

Bill,

I agree with you on the 457132. That was a very good bullet in my old CSA .45-70 and I won many matches with it. Not the highest BC bullet but a reliable one for sure. The 457125 is another bullet that out 800 yards shot some very good scores for me. I really never shot that one at longer ranges because it is so blunt. I do know a shooter who used it out to 1000 yards and did very well with it for years.

[rdnck]

EVERYBODY is sub sonic or at least trans sonic by the time they reach 350 yards in BPCR. We don't need a bullet that works best in the supersonic range, we need one that works best when it is sub or trans sonic. I remember my very first telephone conversation with Paul Jones more than 25 years ago when I called him to order one of his bullet molds for silhouette. His molds were all the rage at the time, and he proceeded to start telling me about this kick ass 1000 yard--his exact words--bullet he had. I interrupted him and told him I didn't need a 1000 yard bullet, I needed a 200 to 500 meter bullet. He really didn't appreciate my input and sent me one of his 540 grain Creedmoor bullets for my 45-70 anyway. I wound up looking for something better, and like a lot of other guys, became a member of the mold of the month club for a while. Then I joined the mold of the week club and after that I began to appreciate the Lyman Postell. Targets don't lie. I bought over a dozen molds from Paul Jones, and more than that from Steve Brooks, BTW. I was shooting about five cases of powder a year at the time. BTDT. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[Kurt]

The thing I find with the MB at the long range shoots is they shoot well but it takes a 16 or 17 twist in the .44's driven hard with the .44-2-5/8 BN and the 2.6 Rem ST with a 100 grain load of powder.
Brent is doing fine with his .45-70 pushing his prolate with 82 gr plus loads but he is having stability issues also. But maybe it's the powder or something going to hell the way it's been going for him. So it's hard to say. In the past he has used some blunt nosed bullets and switched to the pointy bullets.
I try not to lock myself into just one way of doing things, I look at what is working best for me with the rifles I have and the alloy and patched diameter that I see having good results. The alloy is the biggest factor as well as bullet balance matched to the rifling twist. And most of all is the time being the butt plate finding what will work. I just wish I still had the steady posture and the younger eyes I once had but at 80 things start to go down hill to a point.

[Distant Thunder]

Kurt,

Here are three bullets I've mentioned recently, all .44 caliber, from left to right:

   

The first is the GG bullet that gave me very good and consistent accuracy out 600 yards in my .44-100 ST. It is similar to your pp silhouette bullets.

The second is from my new BACO nose pour adjustable .44 caliber mold. It should shoot well in my .44-77. Not real high BC there either.

The third one is from the mold I cut a couple weeks ago with my home made 4-flute cutter. I cast a few the other day while the pot was warming up just to get an idea how it looked and if it would be worth putting more time into the mold. I think it will be. This bullet is a .44 caliber version of my very accurate .40-65 pp bullet and I have sent computer files to Rick at KAL T&D to eventually have him cut an adjustable mold to cast this bullet. I have used this design in a few rifles now and it shot well in all of them. Most notably in my .40-65 where it has held up well in some ugly winds for silhouette and mid range. It's really just an old Sharps design, nothing new.