My .44-100 Rem St.

[Kurt]

Gary.

First a little background for me building this rifle.
I went to a collectors show and I saw two original rifles that caught my eyes. One was a #1 long range rifle in the .44-2-5/8 BN and the second rifle was a Hepburn .44-100 Rem. St. Both rifles where in a wood case with palm breach seating tools and heal sights plus loading tools but way out of my reach in price, $35 K for the Hep and $53K for the sharps I spent some time talking to the man about these rifles and the paper work he had for these rifles and I told him that I had a couple Shiloh's chambered in the .44-2-5/8. He asked me if I had some cases for the .44 bn I could share so he had some for display and I said sure I can send you a few. I also asked if he would make a chamber cast for both rifles and I would send along some cerrosafe for the casts he said be glad to do that for you. Well it took two years before I got the chamber casts with out asking because I did not expect him to make a cast anyway. I had PTG make the reamers. The only thing I changed on the Rem chamber was the bore diameter, the Rem is more of a true .45 caliber then a .44. The bore was .445 with a three thousands deep groove and the ROT was a 17.5 in the HEP. He said that twist was a little unusual. The chamber had a very flat funnel lead into the throat that was 3.5 to 4 degrees as near as Jim could measure it so I told him make it a 4/1.2 degree compound transition.
I asked Kirk at Shiloh if he could make the .44 in a 1/17 ROT and he said no I just make them 1/19 so I asked if he would mount a Krieger 17 twist on the action and he said no problem. I had a .38/.446 Bore groove barrel made 1.3 straight round 35" for a finished length to be a Tollofson rifle and I sent him the reamer and he got the work done.
The rifle shoots quite well but I don't like the extra weight to drag around and when it's in the gun cart, the cart tips over backwards unless I have a couple ammo boxes in the front to add some weight but it still has a tendency to tip back and drive the muzzle in the dirt.


This is what the rifle will shoot. I worked up several loads using Swiss, KIK and OE powder and it shot all three powders well. These targets where shot close at 135 yards with a MVA scope on the rifle. At 200 yards I have several 1.5" 10 shot groups using it.
I use two bullets in this rifle. One is a 1.464" long 503 gr elliptical and the other is a 1.455" long 477 gr prolate from Steve Brooks.
Some day I will screw that barrel off and turn it down. I left the barrel in the white thinking it would reflect some of the sun heat to keep it cooler.

[Don McDowell]

I've been comptemplating another rifle build, and really having trouble deciding whether 44-70, another 44-90 or a 44-100 st. Leaning hard to the 90 for a long range rifle.

[bruce moulds]

kurt,
thank you for adding more pieces to the jigsaw puzzle.
as we all now know, long range rifles were shot using breech seated ammo.
writings of odg and pictures of their kits clearly show this.
in fact they might have been breech seating before the scheutzen guys were doing it.
the palm seaters you describe here are perfectly suited to bore diameter or a bit bigger patched bullets.
with all the evidence presenting, why do the vast majority of bpcr shooters simply ignore the historical facts?
keep safe,
bruce.

[Kurt]

Don I considered the .44-70 that Kelly O-Roos shot so well when I had the reamer made for the .44-75 Ballard. I chose the 75 because it now is a very rare caliber and it uses a 2.5" case. It really never shot well because of the deep grooved barrel it was chambered in.

[Kurt]

Bruce I think in their mind it's a extra step they have to go through and time factor. There is plenty of time during the long range matches and I have considered doing it but I been getting along fine just loading the cartridge. If I just had a lesser capacity case like the .45-70 or a .40-65 where I would like to add more powder for the long range I would use the tool.
I used a palm seater before I had Russ make a camming tool for me so I could seat a groove diameter PP with out distorting the bullet base like the palm seating tool has a tendency to do. A palm seater will seat a GG well enough but again the bullet can get pushed in the bore not straight like one seated with a lot of runout in a case.

[Don McDowell]

Kurt I think with a larger diameter bullet than what you like to use , would shoot just fine in that barrel.
Interesting find in a letter Bodine wrote to Sharps, he thought their rifling was to shallow and preferred a deeper groove. He also specified he wanted the bullet diameter to the point that when wrapped in medium weight paper (what we would call 9 lb.) to just slide thru the bore when inserted in the muzzle with only the weight of the a cleaning rod pushing it.

[Kurt]

Don. That first Organ barrel with the deep groove has a chamber cut for a PP bullet and it will not chamber a GG. The chamber is matches for a four thousand deep groove so the bullet does not upset more then the groove is deep. The deep grooves that barrel had did not let a PP bullet upset enough to fill the grooves for a good gas seal.
The replacement barrel Joe sent was also off in groove depth but this time it was on the shallow end which is beneficial for the PP bullets at three thousands deep but again checking the barrel with a slug gauge ti has loose spots in two places, not good for accuracy, but I was able to lap the barrel and get that problem solved.
For a PP bullet I will take a shallow groove over a deep. Deep grooves are good for a patched ball and the first barrel had a patched round barrel deep groove.

[Lumpy Grits]

Kurt-THANK YOU so very much for taking the time to write this great post
Gary

[Lumpy Grits]

Kelly O-Roos, That's a name I have not heard of in a very long time.
What ever happened with him?
Is he still with us(I hope!)?
SORRY for the 'drift'.
G.

[Kurt]

We used to exchange e mails but I haven't heard from him for about 3-4 years now.