40-65: Learning what I can

[SgtDog0311]

Dang I appreciate a good answer... and a little history makes em all the better. Thanks!

You can tell this topic interests me, even beyond my 40-65. That’s the one in front of me so its foremost just now. But overall the shape of a chamber, the shape of the bullet and the interaction of the two at ignition fascinates me.

My personal experience has been similar to yours with flat(ter) transitions, albeit with Smokeless. Now I’m just starting down the Black Powder road which generates some questions all over again.

I’ll keep reading and trying to apply what I know to Black Powder and understand where what I think I know might change.

Appreciate the links… they look very interesting.

One clarification on your last couple sentences… that question was in regards to your #1 Sharps specifically (3.5 vs 5 degree) rather than in general terms. Just wondered if your wishing you’d stayed with the 3.5 came from anything you saw on your targets or just from staying true to the original cast? Just didn’t want you to think I was looking for a 3.5 endorsement across the board on account of ODGs

[Kurt]

John,

The 3.5 degree is just a wonder if......I have a curiosity that just has no end. Why does this work better then that
I look at the lead bullet chamber that the .22 rimfire uses and it will just enlarge the hole if it does that.
When I get groups at 200 yards that are less then 2" and sometimes less then 1" with the chambers close to what a .22 uses it makes me want to check this out a little more.
Here is an example with one rifle, my .44-77. This rifle started with a 45 degree chamber end. I was plaque with paper rings and lead smeared bores shooting PP bullets. Orville was kind enough to lend me his 7 degree throating reamer and I changed it to a 7 degree and the down range holes looked better but not as good as the rifle with a 4 degree. So I did the unthinkable and used my .44-100 chamber reamer that has a 4 degree. Well running a chamber reamer in to just change the throat was a dangerous project. But the .44-77 has a larger diameter chamber then the 100 so careful indicating the reamer so I did not catch the chamber wall. I lucked out and got the job done. The change improver the consistent groups I'm getting with the rifle.
Right now I'm working on a print for the .44-77 that will be strictly a PP chamber with a 3 degree transition and it will have a barrel completely different then now mostly used. No it will not be a gain twist
It will be an interesting project.
The .44-77 and the .44-2-5/8 BN are great shooters that is overlooked because it's a bottle neck.

[SgtDog0311]

Kurt, I shared both those casts as well as the 40-65 rescue with my shooting buddy. He has similar interests - only he's been doing this since I was buck private. Loves the old cartridges too. He has a 44-77 and he was as impressed with your casts as I was.

[Kurt]

That's good. Here are some more I labeled. They really wont do you much good unless you have them in hand to get a good look at them and measure them.

[SgtDog0311]

Thanks Kurt. Measurements or no that's a nice reference to have.

Questions:
What is the transition angle on the bottom 40-65?
And is it accurate to say the freebore, when present, is the same as diameter as the groove diameter?

I was thinking the freebore was intended to give just a little room for an oversized bullet but now I'm wondering if that is correct. In effect that would mean two transitions (i.e., a second step from freebore to groove diameter) and I don't see that.

I ask that second question with my Ballard at John Taylor's in mind. The Win diagram shows a .4085 freebore and I believe the TJ liner is a .400 bore and .408 groove so the Winchester Reamer looks like a good fit that could be throated the way I want. I could opt to leave a smidgen of freebore or take the angle right to the start of the leade ramp. That's what I'm leaning towards right now.

[Kurt]

That's a 4 degree.
Freebore is a cylinder of what ever length and it is usually deeper then the groove by a couple thousands. I had a Pedersoli that had a .450" long freebore.
The funnel transition extends from the chamber wall to the bottom of the groove

[Gunlaker]

I finally charged the battery on the camera and took a picture of the chamber cast from my Shiloh.

   

Hmm. It seems quite tiny. If you click on it it you can see it in full size. The quality of the cast is not quite as high as Kurt's. He's perfected the technique :-)

Chris.

[SgtDog0311]

Still better than mine Chris. Thanks for taking the trouble. Getting close to the time for me to quit "overthinking" this like Don says and step out. I'll spend a lot of money getting what I want but I sometimes anguish over deciding what it is that I really want.

[Gunlaker]

I think the Shiloh and Browning ones work pretty well for greasers. I don't own a Browning .40-65, but this spring I was beaten by a fellow using one in a schuetzen benchrest black powder match. IIRC he shot a perfect 200-13x and I shot a 199-14x. The fellow was definitely a better shooter than me, as I was shooting a breech seated .32-40 with a benchrest stock so I should have had the advantage.

Chris.

[Gunlaker]

Btw, I tend to overthink a lot of things myself. But I do enjoy it :-)

Chris.