Development of PP loads for the .44-77.

[Distant Thunder]

Considering all you did to those bullets to get them in the chamber of that rifle they shot pretty well.

If you had a size die that you could run them through after patching that would then allow the bullet to seat just snug in the cases it might work even better. You sized them today but sizing in the cases can't be best. I've had to do the same thing at times.

With a 2-D bullet like this one as long as you can wrap the bore diameter section to a push fit in the bore it doesn't matter what size the base wraps to, you just run it through a size die that will make it fit the cases and it's good. I'm running mine through my .4465" die and with the little bit of spring back in the paper they are a perfect fit in my cases. You just have to match the wrap to the bore and size the base. Works great.

[Kurt]

Jim, This rifle has always shot very good. I designed the reamer only for a PP bullet and the outside case mouth is only .462" fired.
Lee has stopped making custom dies for the 7/8X14 threads and I don'r have one for the DD. I have a .438" for the bore diameter.
This DD would smile for a breach seated bullet and I will make a case for this DD for my breach seating tool.
The bullet patched with 55Y measures .447" and it's a very tight fit in the case that has .009" thick walls and some of my Starline cases run 10K +-. The 55Y paper thickness is as low as .0013 to .0016" depending where I put the mic on the sheet.
Right now the only way I can make this bullet work if flaring the case mouth seating the bullet and run then through a .44-100 taper crimp die I have. It's not the best and I figured I would have more vertical than I had today.
The Shiloh Hartford .44-77 you shot the DD is perfect using .0018" paper but the Farmer .44-77 has a more generous throat that I have to use .002" paper for a proper fit in the case without having to size the neck down and the front of the base fits right in the lead taper of the chamber.. The whole profile of the patched bullet fits the throat taper and bore riding shank. I think that is why the different loads don't show much difference on the paper. But Rapids will tell the final outcome at 600 yards if they hold up. If they will hold at 600 then the 1K has a good chance.
I have or has 400 bullets cast so I have enough for more shooting before Rapids with out having to heat up the lead pot again.

[Distant Thunder]

Arnie and I dimensioned this bullet to fit the Shiloh standard grease groove chamber using .002" paper because that is the chamber that I had Shiloh put in this 17-twist Krieger barrel. By adjusting the paper down and, if necessary, sizing the base it should be very good in any .44 caliber rifle where the freebore isn't longer than about .125".

If I had time before Rapids I would do a ladder load test with my 1 1/2 Swiss and the Federal 215 LRM primers, but with rain forecast for the next three days that's not going to happen. I'll just have to go with the 86 grain load and shoot my best!

Which rifle will you use for Rapids? Scope?

I put a tang sight on my .44-77 this week and hope to get a 220 yard sight setting between the rain drops that I will then use to guesstimate a 300 and 600 yard setting. I should be at least close enough so my spotter can walk me to the center. I just need about 3 hour with no rain to get a no wind zero and a sight setting.

I have a very good feeling about this bullet at 1000 yards, it should hold up well. I will shoot my .44-77 for the Fall Classic at Lodi. I'll shoot my.45-70 Hepburn for the Creedmoor Cup.

I was surprised that 86 grains of 1 1/2 only gave me 1293 fps with a 507 grain bullet. That is the same velocity I get from my. 45-70 with a 530 grain bullet and 83 grain of the same powder. I really thought I would be much closer to 1350. It is what it is!

[Kurt]

I will bring both to Rapids and most likely use the .44-77. I don't think there is time to shoot both. I had the bull barrel build for the long range paper matches but I pretty much quit Lodi.
I have the scope mounted now on both rifles so I will start using the scope, forced to using one now if I want to keep shooting the matches.

I will dig through my .44 dies I made when I still had the lathe. I made some sizing dies I can hone out using the Milland republish them to get a proper diameter using the .0018 paper. I don't like the 55Y it's just to thin for a .004" groove. When you shoot 50-60 rounds and bore scope the barrel I see the inside of the lands getting build up with lead smears.

the new mould has been a fun ride so far. Maybe I should get one for the rest of my calibers LOL.

[Distant Thunder]

I have put scope bases on all my rifles now except my Shiloh .45-90. I can still, as of last year, shoot bullseye paper targets fairly well with iron sights, but I know the days are numbered for me and irons. Yet another reason I went to the .44-77 with a 30" barrel. I'm pretty sure I will be able to use my scope for Creedmoor with the tall bases I have on it now. Should be pretty easy to check, I have a 600 yard sight setting and it's up approximately 37 minutes up to 800 yards from there and 40+/- more from there to 1000. I could spin that on the scope and see if I'm looking "through" the muzzle. I was at 1000 yards with my 34" barrel, not good.

For silhouette and gongs I almost have to use a scope now. I can not see silhouettes beyond the pigs with iron sights. Gongs disappear for me after they get a few hits on them. I had put off going to a scope for about 7 years and now I really enjoy it for steel targets and when my time comes to switch for paper targets I will do so and never look back. I just like being able to see what I'm shooting at and I really enjoy hitting the target! If a scope keeps me shooting longer I see no shame in using one. We can't all have rdnck's eyes!

I've moved away from the 55Y because it's just too thin for me to even work with. I like my 9 lb. onionskin and use that for just about everything. If the bullet is too big wrapped with 9 lb. I just size them to fit. I have made size dies for most of my rifles and I polish them out to a perfect fit for each rifle. Fit is very important when you're trying to hold the 10-ring at 1000 yards. If you're just trying to hit paper it's not really that important and you can go with anything that will chamber. IMHO!

The rain has pretty much stopped so I need to get out there and get a sight setting. Fouling shouldn't be a problem, it's extremely humid and fairly cool.

[Kurt]

I just spent an hr & 20 minutes cutting 616 yellow paper patches for the tight chambered .44-2.6 st. so I can use them in it.
The thing with this DDPPE bullet is it's paper thickness specific.with a standard chamber you can get by with some variances in thickness but with a tight chamber using the yellow .0014"+- a little you will run into a problem with the patched shank diameters. What I'm seeing is the base is .446" but the shanks running .434" that's .006" under bore. This will work fine for shooting dirty but it might give you a problem at extended ranges if your using an alloy to hard that keeps the shank from obdurating. This is something I will check out this winter.
I will have to make a die to swage the base down for the tight chambered 100. The .44-77 Farmer I can use .002" paper and that gives me the shank diameter I want. The bullet dimensions for the standard chamber is perfect. Even .00183" is good with what I want.
I have a core swage die for my Corbin swage press I can use to size the patched base down using the thick paper. I will run some through later tonight and get them loaded.
I made a batch of Arnies WW/Lino and have a few cast with it I will use in the Farmer. Might get to the range again next Monday or Tuesday and shoot them.
But I have to play with the drywall mud and tape for a few days and paint sprayer when I get things sanded down.

[Distant Thunder]

Kurt,

Well you have answered a question that just came up this afternoon. How many patches per hour is a good number to cut? You've got me beat all to heck! I'm not at all surprised, I know I'm slow and that's why I was wondering.

I was running short on patches for the same bullet and though I use .002" thick paper it's a good comparison of pph (patches per hour). I figured I needed 250 more patches for the 333 bullets I cast this week. I get 27 patches for this bullet from a sheet of paper so I took 10 sheets and set out to cut patches. I finished the 270 patches in one hour exactly. You far exceeded me and I applaud your effort!

I did get my no wind zero set on the my rifle this morning and got a 220 yard sight setting with the irons. I was chasing a 1/2 minute back and forth on drifting the front sight and finally just said close enough. The wind was blowing pretty good right after the rain stopped but died down enough for me to get a good no wind. Then it kicked back up! I went ahead anyway and shot a 5-shot group at 220 yards with your Sagebrush bullet because I was using those for my no wind. Somehow I dropped one shot a minute low but the other 4 were in 2" with 3 all touching.

I ran the numbers using my sight settings from my Hepburn because the two rifles are both shooting an elliptical paper patch bullet and the same velocity. I have no idea how close they will be but I figured all the way out 1000 yards. After the Rapids match I'll run the numbers again using my actual 300 and 600 yards settings from the match. The Fall Classic will be all 1000 yard shooting again this year but I can adjust 800 and 900 off my actual 1000 yard setting after Lodi and I should be good from then on.

My .44-77 is running pretty good and I was happy to see I was able to shoot a decent group at 220 with the iron sights. It was pretty grey and dark down range with all the rain this morning so my eyes are still working good enough. The group was 2 1/2 inches high and 2 inches wide with the one low shot figured in.

I've probably got enough loaded up now for Rapids but I don't want to be like Jeff and run out of bullets and not have enough to finish at 600 yards so I'll load a few more this evening. This coming weekend and the early part of next week are going to be busy for me so I need to get all that stuff done ahead. I should be ready by the end of the day tomorrow.

I am enjoying the heck out of shooting this rifle! I'm looking forward to Arnie's match.

[Kurt]

The way I do it takes the work out of it. The worst part shooting a PP is cutting the patches.

Today using the 55Y, mine comes in rolls I cut 11 sheets today stapled them together and squared them off so all 11 sheets were the same size stapled together. I laid out 4 patches per strip and 14 strips 4 each.

Each strip has a staple holding them so when I cut the strip they stay together.

I used to scan a pattern on printer paper and made several copies so all I had to do was staple it on the sheets and start cutting. But the scanner I have now does not copy the exact size so I have to do it when i need more patches.

       

[Distant Thunder]

I used to do the printer thing too but haven't now for maybe 10 years.

I staple together 5 sheets along one end and cut it into strips so there is a staple in one end of each strip and then use a template to cut the strips into patches starting from the unstapled end. Today I did 2 set of 5 sheets each.

Each stapled strip make 15 patches. I get 5 patches for each cut with the template. I could staple more sheets together and get more patches per cut with about the same amount of work but 5 sheets is easy to handle.

What I was doing, that you probably weren't, was playing fetch with my dog. I was sitting at the table cutting patches and he kept bringing his throw toy over and putting it on my lap. So I'd grab it and throw it across the room trying to hit some corner that would make him have to work at it before it was back in my lap. He can play fetch all day long! He never tires of it! That may have slowed me down some.

I don't mind cutting patches, I enjoy the entire process of paper patching, but shooting is the most fun. I loaded 75 of these 2-D bullets for Rapids today and I enjoyed assembling each cartridge. I take a moment to admire each one before I set it in the ammo box and move on to the next. Nothing in the shooting world is as impressive as a Sharps paper patch cartridge, not for me anyway. I can not understand how some people can shoot grease groove bullets in these rifles. Oh, I used to but I always felt cheap and dirty afterwards. It was the lure of the paper patch bullet that brought me to the Sharps. I knew right away that I would some day have to learn how to make that combo work. It took me too long to learn something as simple as paper patching. Now I have grease groove molds rusting away from lack of use.

I do shoot a lot of grease groove bullets in other types of rifles and in handguns, just not in my Sharps rifles. To me now it just wouldn't make sense to shoot any thing other than paper patch in a Sharps. I am very happy with my Sharps .44-77 and there is so much more I have yet to explore with it, I can only hope I have enough time to do so.