Development of PP loads for the .44-77.

[Distant Thunder]

The gong match at Wisconsin Rapids was held yesterday and while we did not get rained on I seriously doubt anyone remained dry. With the temperature at 88 and the dew point at 67.54 I know I was soaking wet after 15 minutes on the 300 yard line! There was a tail wind at 14 mph but it had very little effect on me laying in the sun as it mostly blew above me it seemed. The wind did a lot of switching from 4 o'clock to 9 o'clock and got pretty gusty from time to time.

I used two different bullets and loads for the match. I used a heavier bullet at 300 and 600 and a lighter one at 200.

   

The heavy load:

A 510 grain Sagebrush bullet - these were given to me to try and at 200m they looked pretty good in a test a week before the match.
.060 LDPE wad - these usually prove to best the best wad for me.
86.0 grains of Swiss 1 1/2, lot #18/01/2016. This is a new lot that I have never used before.
JBA brass - I used these because they have only been fired once and need a second go to fill them out.
Federal 210 primers - These are always my starting point with Swiss 1 1/2
COAL = 3.545"

The light load:

A 450 grain version from my BACO 431 ADJ mold.
.060 LDPE wad
80.0 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 lot #18/01/2016
Federal 210 primer
COAL = 3.250"

We started at 300 yards. The Sagebrush bullet produced very nice overlapping clusters on the 3 gongs with 4 shots on each from any position, I shot prone off
sticks. On a couple the wind did switch enough to push me one way or another 2-3 inches but all shots stayed on the gongs.

At 200 yards we also started from any position for 12 shots, 4 on each of 3 gongs, but finished with 4 shots offhand on a fairly forgiving gong. Here I used the 450 BACO bullet and it shot very well, pretty much in the center except one that slipped just under the second gong. I chalked that one up to a bad bullet because everything looked good and was centered at the break.

There is little a guy can do about a shot that missed, I've learned to quickly move to the next shot unless there is a condition that the miss can be hung on. I've missed many times over the years and I'm actually quite good at it! In the past I've let a bad shot mess with my thinking and that almost always leads to the next shot not being a good one. That is a mistake I can avoid by putting the bad shot out of my mind, the next shot is more important and I do my best to make sure it is good.

The offhand started pretty well for me, but I did miss the last one. This is not one of my stronger areas.

When we moved to 600 the past few hours of laying in the hot sun had really taken a toll. I could not get comfortable behind the rifle and I just wasn't very steady. I adjusted my sticks 3 or 4 times, but the darn hump I was laying on made me uncomfortable. I think I missed 3 at 600, I know I missed the last one. I hate missing on the last shot! An X on the last shot can make a bad string somewhat better, but a miss leaves a bad taste every time.

I for got to look over my score sheet after my 600 so I'm not certain how many I missed. In a few days Arnie will email the scores and I'll know then. I felt it went pretty well for a first outing with the .44-77. It's just a fun match with only bragging rights and egos on the line!

So far the cartridge has been very easy to get very good accuracy with using paper patch bullets. Both loads produced 1 1/2 moa accuracy from what I could see on the gongs It has not been very fussy about seating depth or powder charge and shoots the two bullets I used very well.

Loading accurate paper patch bullets has been pretty easy for me over the years. I do like my bullets to push up into the rifling with some resistance, but not put a lot of strain on my thumb. Other than that I just prime the case, drop tube in the powder, usually 1 1/2 Swiss, seat a .060 ploy wad on top with .030 to .150" compression. I like to use a very, very light taper crimp, such so the bullet can be pulled and reseated with out damage to the paper. If I hold the case upside down the bullet will not fall out unless I shake it. I do this light crimp with all my paper patch bullets be they straight sided, groove diameter or 2-diameter. Whether they are fired from a tight PP chamber or a grease groove chamber like my .44-77. Doing so always improved my accuracy so that I just do it and don't even think about it anymore.

I don't see working to improve the accuracy of a bullet that is not from a mold I own so I will now move toward working with a 2-diameter PPB. I have one on order with BACO and I hope to see it soon. I was given several 2-D PPB by one of the shooters at the match. They are from the BACO mold #JIM443495EPP. They are too big in diameter for my rifle with my usual 9 lb. onionskin, but I wrapped a few with some thin paper I got from a friend that is .0016" thick. So wrapped they fit about as snug as I'd like but they do fit. The bases I just sized to .4465".
I'll load these up over 85 grains of my 1 1/2 Swiss and see how they shoot at 200m, hopefully next weekend.

I also have a mold I made myself that produces a bullet along the lines of the original Sharps design. I plan to set it up and cut a base band that will allow me to load 82-86 grains of 1 1/2 Swiss under it. That one will also be tested at 200m.

The goal remains to develop 1 or more accurate paper patch loads using a 2-D bullet or three. The next real test will be the paper target match at Rapids on August 22. If I have the new mold from BACO in time I will use it, that would be best. If not, I use whatever 2-D PPB I can pull together.

Where things stand now I have to say it is too bad that the .44-77 gets such a bad rap from people on the internet. The biggest challenge has been getting good brass, but it's out there you just have to buy it when you can. Because of the somewhat larger head and rim size (JBA brass) considerations have to be given to loading blocks, ammo boxes and a few other things. BACO's rims are smaller in diameter and less of a problem in some ways, but still work flawlessly. They are the best buy I could find. If you are going to use groove diameter, PP or GG, the neck are a bit tight in my Shiloh chamber. I will eventually have to do some neck turning on the BACO cases.

For me the .44-77 is proving to be a fun challenge, the sort of thing I enjoy, and it is delivering all I hoped for and more. Once I have a mold of my own I'll have no trouble working up accurate loads capable of winning matches for me. In the mean time I am having a lot of fun playing with a cartridge that first caught my interest over 30 years ago thanks to Elmer Keith.

[beltfed]

Looks like your new "toy" is going to "go to the top of the heap"
at upcoming rifle matches. Good work!
Arnie

The gong match at Wisconsin Rapids was held yesterday and while we did not get rained on I seriously doubt anyone remained dry. With the temperature at 88 and the dew point at 67.54 I know I was soaking wet after 15 minutes on the 300 yard line! There was a tail wind at 14 mph but it had very little effect on me laying in the sun as it mostly blew above me it seemed. The wind did a lot of switching from 4 o'clock to 9 o'clock and got pretty gusty from time to time.

I used two different bullets and loads for the match. I used a heavier bullet at 300 and 600 and a lighter one at 200.



The heavy load:

A 510 grain Sagebrush bullet - these were given to me to try and at 200m they looked pretty good in a test a week before the match.
.060 LDPE wad - these usually prove to best the best wad for me.
86.0 grains of Swiss 1 1/2, lot #18/01/2016. This is a new lot that I have never used before.
JBA brass - I used these because they have only been fired once and need a second go to fill them out.
Federal 210 primers - These are always my starting point with Swiss 1 1/2
COAL = 3.545"

The light load:

A 450 grain version from my BACO 431 ADJ mold.
.060 LDPE wad
80.0 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 lot #18/01/2016
Federal 210 primer
COAL = 3.250"

We started at 300 yards. The Sagebrush bullet produced very nice overlapping clusters on the 3 gongs with 4 shots on each from any position, I shot prone off
sticks. On a couple the wind did switch enough to push me one way or another 2-3 inches but all shots stayed on the gongs.

At 200 yards we also started from any position for 12 shots, 4 on each of 3 gongs, but finished with 4 shots offhand on a fairly forgiving gong. Here I used the 450 BACO bullet and it shot very well, pretty much in the center except one that slipped just under the second gong. I chalked that one up to a bad bullet because everything looked good and was centered at the break.

There is little a guy can do about a shot that missed, I've learned to quickly move to the next shot unless there is a condition that the miss can be hung on. I've missed many times over the years and I'm actually quite good at it! In the past I've let a bad shot mess with my thinking and that almost always leads to the next shot not being a good one. That is a mistake I can avoid by putting the bad shot out of my mind, the next shot is more important and I do my best to make sure it is good.

The offhand started pretty well for me, but I did miss the last one. This is not one of my stronger areas.

When we moved to 600 the past few hours of laying in the hot sun had really taken a toll. I could not get comfortable behind the rifle and I just wasn't very steady. I adjusted my sticks 3 or 4 times, but the darn hump I was laying on made me uncomfortable. I think I missed 3 at 600, I know I missed the last one. I hate missing on the last shot! An X on the last shot can make a bad string somewhat better, but a miss leaves a bad taste every time.

I for got to look over my score sheet after my 600 so I'm not certain how many I missed. In a few days Arnie will email the scores and I'll know then. I felt it went pretty well for a first outing with the .44-77. It's just a fun match with only bragging rights and egos on the line!

So far the cartridge has been very easy to get very good accuracy with using paper patch bullets. Both loads produced 1 1/2 moa accuracy from what I could see on the gongs It has not been very fussy about seating depth or powder charge and shoots the two bullets I used very well.

Loading accurate paper patch bullets has been pretty easy for me over the years. I do like my bullets to push up into the rifling with some resistance, but not put a lot of strain on my thumb. Other than that I just prime the case, drop tube in the powder, usually 1 1/2 Swiss, seat a .060 ploy wad on top with .030 to .150" compression. I like to use a very, very light taper crimp, such so the bullet can be pulled and reseated with out damage to the paper. If I hold the case upside down the bullet will not fall out unless I shake it. I do this light crimp with all my paper patch bullets be they straight sided, groove diameter or 2-diameter. Whether they are fired from a tight PP chamber or a grease groove chamber like my .44-77. Doing so always improved my accuracy so that I just do it and don't even think about it anymore.

I don't see working to improve the accuracy of a bullet that is not from a mold I own so I will now move toward working with a 2-diameter PPB. I have one on order with BACO and I hope to see it soon. I was given several 2-D PPB by one of the shooters at the match. They are from the BACO mold #JIM443495EPP. They are too big in diameter for my rifle with my usual 9 lb. onionskin, but I wrapped a few with some thin paper I got from a friend that is .0016" thick. So wrapped they fit about as snug as I'd like but they do fit. The bases I just sized to .4465".
I'll load these up over 85 grains of my 1 1/2 Swiss and see how they shoot at 200m, hopefully next weekend.

I also have a mold I made myself that produces a bullet along the lines of the original Sharps design. I plan to set it up and cut a base band that will allow me to load 82-86 grains of 1 1/2 Swiss under it. That one will also be tested at 200m.

The goal remains to develop 1 or more accurate paper patch loads using a 2-D bullet or three. The next real test will be the paper target match at Rapids on August 22. If I have the new mold from BACO in time I will use it, that would be best. If not, I use whatever 2-D PPB I can pull together.

Where things stand now I have to say it is too bad that the .44-77 gets such a bad rap from people on the internet. The biggest challenge has been getting good brass, but it's out there you just have to buy it when you can. Because of the somewhat larger head and rim size (JBA brass) considerations have to be given to loading blocks, ammo boxes and a few other things. BACO's rims are smaller in diameter and less of a problem in some ways, but still work flawlessly. They are the best buy I could find. If you are going to use groove diameter, PP or GG, the neck are a bit tight in my Shiloh chamber. I will eventually have to do some neck turning on the BACO cases.

For me the .44-77 is proving to be a fun challenge, the sort of thing I enjoy, and it is delivering all I hoped for and more. Once I have a mold of my own I'll have no trouble working up accurate loads capable of winning matches for me. In the mean time I am having a lot of fun playing with a cartridge that first caught my interest over 30 years ago thanks to Elmer Keith.

[Kurt]

Good work Jim.
Man what a way to come out on top with a new caliber and getting the brass working. There was never a doubt in my mind that you would get the .44-77 smoking.

For me, I really like the relaxed shoot Arnie and his crew puts on at Rapids well worth the 4 hrs on the road getting there.
Now I just have to get it in the empty space between my ears to take the irons off and clamp the three scopes I have collected these past 15 years and learn how to use them. Cross fired to many times and I had to quit shooting the 200 because I just could not see the last two swingers.

[Distant Thunder]

Kurt,

Thank you! Your bullets shot pretty well and I could see the potential of this .44-77 once I got the cases fireformed. I'll need to tighten up some for Arnie's paper match in August.

Today I when I opened the mail box I was surprised and happy to see the new mold from BACO! They did a beautiful job, the dimensions of the sample bullet are on the money. OAL is 1.435" and will be well stabilized by my 17-twist. It weighs 507 grains and really looks good. I'll start casting this evening. This should be an excellent bullet in my rifle and any rifle with Shiloh's standard grease groove chamber. I expect to load it over 85-88 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 which should move it right along.

I am really looking forward to Arnie's paper match now! That will be a good test. I will be transitioning to iron sights as soon as I finish my load development with this bullet and I hope to shoot this rifle for the Fall Classic at Lodi in September. So even though it is a very short shooting season this year I will get to test the .44-77 at everything but a silhouette match.

I really like my scope and I will use it for silhouette and probably gong matches but I prefer iron sights for paper bullseye matches and I seem to be able to see the target pretty well yet. I can not see the number boards worth crap so I have to be really careful that I am on the correct target. I have caught myself lining up on the wrong target many times and that is why I always double check before I yank the trigger!

Well, I gotta go cast some bullets and cut some patches. I'll report on the process as I go. I'm really liking this .44-77!

[Kurt]

Jim,
I better go down and look in my mailbox to see if there is one there also. I think we ordered the same mould on the same day.

[Kurt]

just junk mail

[Distant Thunder]

Kurt,

When I saw that they were listed on the website as "IN STOCK" I thought I might see mine soon. I'm sure yours is on the way. I'm not sure when mine was actually shipped. I had business in town, paying for my .44-77, and stopped by the post office to mail the check and of course I checked the mail box while I was there, BINGO! There it was. I only go to town about once a week and don't always stop at the post office. I'm not sure why they shipped it to the P.O. box, my account at BACO lists my home address for shipping. I'll talk to them next time I order and have the P.O. box (left over from O'Hare Tool) removed from all records.

So I cast some bullets after supper and took 5 at random and weighed them. From my 17:1 alloy they run 507+ to 508+ grains. My bullets are a little smaller in diameter than the sample, about .0005". When I patch some this evening I'll know how they fit my bore. They look good otherwise. I figured a .950" high patch should fit.

The mold casts like a dream once up to temperature and the bullet fall out with one light tap.

[Kurt]

Be sure to report when you get a chance to see how it flies.
I have a little more leeway with my funnel shaped throat then the standard chamber. Erik gave me one of his bullets and I patched it with .0015 paper and it's to tight to fit a fired case shot with my rifle. It tears the patch seating it in the case so the .441 should be a good fit.
I took the .22 barrel off my .CPA and screwed on the 1/16 twist .44-100 st. so I can test that bullet shot with a .44-2.6 with a 17 and 16 twist as well as the .44-77's with a 19 and 17 twist and a couple .44-90 bn's with a 17 and 19 twist.
Better get some powder ordered. 5000 210 fed primers are coming tomorrow

[Distant Thunder]

I cast 55 of these 441505EPP and they mostly weigh 508 grains with a few at 507 and 506.

   

I patched a couple and the .950" patch is just about right. The diameters could be a midge bigger but are not bad. I had no trouble dry wrapping these 2-D bullets, but I have been wrapping this type for years.

I set one on top of 85 grains of 1 1/2 Swiss, lot #18/01/2016 and it was not quite enough powder so I settled on 86 grains and that's good. The bullet is approximately .125" in the case mouth but I did not measure it. I'll do that tomorrow. I just need to have the angle of the base band up against the rifling and that I have.

I put a very light taper crimp on the case mouth. I actually had to lightly flare the case mouth to seat the bullet and the taper crimp really just closes it up so it will chamber.

   

I'll load some up the same with a .060 ploy wad and Federal 210 primers in the JBA cases and see how they shoot.

[J.B.]

Very tidy looking bullet there Jim. A little sharper in the nose than what I've been playing with . I saw that diagram on the BACo website...but I've already got a bucket load to test..so I'll let you do the hard yards for me Those moulds that Jim at BACo produce are first rate once they've warmed up. Going to try another of theirs in a straight sided, nose pour. Hoping it drops closer to .434 than .433 though.

J.B.