Recovered 2-diameter PPB.

[Distant Thunder]

Hey Mike,

This picture probably shows it better than I can describe it. Very minimal distortion of the lead, which is what you want in any bullet, GG or PP.

   

[Don McDowell]

Jim the first dual diameter bullet mould I had came from Old West mould s. Bernie told me he copied that bullet from one he had pulled from an original sharps round. Brooks calls his dad traditional sharps style .
I don’t put a lot of stock in some of this traditionalist stuff we see on the internet.
My experience with dual diameter a rifle either
Er likes them a lot or don’t like them at all.

[Kurt]

Jim,
That mould you have on hold at KAL, is it going to be a Gibbs type nose? If it is I have a mould from Rick he calls the .44-77 430 and it has a Gibbs nose adjustable cavity that is very close to the .45 picture I posted but in the .44. I got this mouldd from Don and it is a little undersized but using .002" paper it is a fine shooting bullet in my .44's.
I been using it more for a core mould for the .45 Medford swage die because the noses are very close. I can send you this mould and you can cast a bunch before your rifle finds it's way home to you.
I'm casting a bunch for my .44-77 Farmer getting ready for the Alma and Friendship matches as well as Harris MN long range.

[Distant Thunder]

Kurt,
The mold I have waiting at KAL is exactly the same design as my .40-65 bullet, which is really just the same as the old Sharps .45 caliber long range paper patch bullet. I just changed the dimensions appropriately for .44 caliber. I don't think there is anything magic about the design, but it has shot very well in a number of different rifles and is very easy to get to shoot well, at least it has been for me.

I have a new BACO .44 caliber adjustable PP mold and two grease groove molds from Brooks that I had bought years ago for my .44 Remington Straight, a rifle I no long have. I will be selling those grease groove molds later this summer once I'm sure they serve no purpose for my .44-77. I may use one or both of the greasers for fire forming cases, maybe.

I've cast some bullets from the BACO mold, it casts very easy, and I find that patching that bullet with some Southworth 25% 9# paper I have the diameter is right at .438" and I have die that will size them to .4375". That will get me started for paper patch bullets.

I also have a variety of ppb I got from you and Don that I can play with.

I am trying real hard not to buy too many molds before I have the rifle, but being a moldoholic like I am it's not going real well. In looking around at what's available in paper patch molds I looked at the tapered Gibbs that Rick shows on his website. I emailed him asking about a .44 caliber of a similar style, the Sharps style. He asked for some kind of a drawing before he would say he could make what I wanted. I sent him the only thing I had at home at the time and offered to send a better drawing the following week after I would have time to draw one up on my computer. He told me if I had a CAD file that he could work with it would be even better. I'm designing bullets on my computer at my shop all the time so I made and sent him a good clean file and he sent back some 3-D models he made from my file. Pretty cool really. His models look just like mine so I am reassured that he will make exactly what I want.

This is the kind of thing I'm used to in tool & die. Toward the end of my working for a living that is all I ever got from customers was a 3-D CAD file of the part to work with, no drawing, no dimensions, nothing else. We took their part and designed and built a die to make the parts.

My Dad used to laugh and say that, "Some day you'll just have to feed the blueprint into the machine and a die will come out the other end!". He died before CNC really got started and just as NC was getting going, but he would not believe how close to right he was. He just didn't know the drawing would be in the form of a computer file.

Anyway, I may want to take you up your offer of using your mold later, after I have a rifle, but for now I think it's best not to have too many things belonging to other people just laying around and in danger of getting lost. That sort of thing happens around here all to often.

I do plan to try a number of different designs in PPB through my .44-77, I see this rifle as a Grand Experiment. So hold that thought and I may be asking for your help down the road.

It's been 8 month since I sent my rifle to Shiloh and I have no idea when it will fit into their system or when it might be done. I have a lot of money and time already invested in molds, brass, dies and other miscellaneous paraphernalia. I can only hope that some of it will prove useful!

[J.B.]

Interesting reading Jim.. always. I've also enlisted Rick to make a mould for my 44 a few weeks back. The dimensions will be different.. possibly too wide at the base but I'm looking forward to giving it a try when the time comes. This will be my first base pour pp mould...so I'm going to have to learn to deal with a flat base. Cant hide my poor wrapping by curling it into the tail ! Looking at the Gibbs vs Sharps design he has on the website I can't help but feel the Gibbs actually 'looks', on paper at least, to be closer to the few Sharps bullets I've seen. So I went with a Gibbs profile/ ogive. While I'll certainly trial this bullet in the 1/19.. its being designed with the 1/17" twist in mind. 1.4 -1.42" long. .433-434 along the shank and .443-.444 at the base. I gather this will give it a more pronounced shoulder than your design.. but we'll see what happens. Case neck thickness varies a bit within the lots of cases I have at my disposal and I'm trying to get to a point where I don't have to size...or can get away with a 1-2 thou reduction only. This should give the cases maximum life span hopefully..although I've not had issues to date. Last weekend I finally trialled a new BACo. gg bullet of my design and fingers crossed..so far so good. Once again its a tad long for the 1/19" @ 1.435". but it appeared to hold up with very mild winds. It's coming out at 530 grains and courtesy of a Magneto speed chronograph that was on hand.. between 1280 & 1300 fps. This was my first shoot in six months...and that's just way way too long between shoot days. Interestingly enough.. I had some Brooks 485 gn Creedmoor loads with the same charge.. ie. 84 x Swiss 1.5... and they were clocking 1305-1324... so not a huge difference for 50grn more weight. Looking forward to the new moulds arrival and the chance to give it a work out.. Never enough moulds

[Kurt]

Very good Jim. It's a standing offer when ever your ready. I'm very selective to who I let use my moulds. I lost several over the years forgetting who I loaned them too.
But right now these five bullets I go with for the long range and gong shoots. The two moulds are KAL moulds and the Gibbs (left block) And the elliptical (1/2 block and first left bullet from that mould) #2 bullet is a BA and it has put me 3 rd at the MT 1000. #3 is a Sagebrush Mould I use in the .44-77 and it has showed some very tight groups but only at 200 yards shot through the Farmer Shiloh and the last is my favorite for hunting and long range. It has been used out to 1585 yards on a iron Buff. it is cast with an adjustable Brooks mould. I have several others MB bullets from BA Paul Jones but they are drawer moulds.
I use these bullet in the 16, 17 and 19 twist .44's.

   

[Distant Thunder]

Gavin,
"Never enough molds"! Those are the words I live by. Then there's this, "Just one more mold!". That one is for when I'm feeling big and strong, thinking I can quit any time I want!

For me it's not just about these old rifles and how they make me feel, it's also about those high arcing, slow moving lead bullets fighting all that nature can throw in front of them as they push on toward their intended target. Trying to understand how they act and why is what keeps me in the game and there will always be, just one more mold!

Oh, and one more rifle so I can start the whole process all over again!

Pictures of your bullets and details of how they shoot would be of interest to me and others too I'm sure.

[Distant Thunder]

Kurt,

I'll post a picture of a .44 caliber mold I just made using the cutter I told you about. That is what I will have Rick make for me so I have a good mold. It is very much like the one on the right in your picture.

I save a lot of the pictures I see, label them and refer back to the information when I'm thinking about designs and such. My wife would tell you that all I think about is bullets, but that's not entirely true. I do think about other things once in a while, when time permits!

I do thank you for offer of your mold and as I said I will very likely take you up on that and not too far down the road. First I need a rifle! then I need to put sights on it, I got those. I'm going to put scope bases on it before the wood goes back on. The wood is all refinish good enough for a 30 year old rifle anyway. I have 200 brass that needs to be fire formed and there will be a bug or two to work out here and there.

I plan to start load development with the BACO nose pour adjustable paper patch mold I have. That bullet will let me fine tune the length and all the load details as I find out what this rifle is going to like. Right now I have no frigging clue.

That rifle came to me as a .45-70 back in 1992 or 93. It was one of the rifles that Kirk made in his first year at Shiloh. I learned to shoot black powder it that rifle, without having to dump it down the barrel. The rifle shot very well once I learned a little about how to load BP in a cartridge. I went to my first match with that rifle in 1995 at Friendship. I took that rifle to Lodi my first time there in May of 1997. It had a 26" barrel and a mid-range tang sight that I had made changes to so I could shoot 1000 yards. I was hooked on long range after the first shot!

I later had a 30" barrel put on it and chambered for .45-90. It shot very well then too and had more reach and I learned a lot shooting it as a .45-90. Now it will be a .44-77 and I will learn a lot more from that old rifle. I have certainly got my moneys worth out of that one.

We'll need to sit and talk about the .44-77 when we cross paths at a match or two this year and you can help me shorten the learning curve some. I'll enjoy that!

See ya then!

[Kurt]

Well if you want, bring a bunch of your ammo to Alma in April and You can use one of my .44-77's to blow out the necks in your cases. I'm usually there by Friday and head home Sunday and most of the time I take the northern loop over the bridge and pass close to your place and if I can find a place close by to drop anchor with the Gypsy wagon we can make some smoke and pour lead down a small hole also.
You will get that shooter up and running in short order when you get it.

[Distant Thunder]

I'll need to check the dates, if I remember right it's toward the end of April. Really hard to say what the weather will be.

I'm not sure where there is an RV place near here, but there must be one or two. I could look at that.

I hope to make it over to Alma a couple times this with my .44-77, once I have it.