Designing the 2-diameter paper patch bullet.

[Distant Thunder]

Just an update, I starting cutting Matt's 2-diameter bullet mold today. If all goes well I will finish it next week and cast a few, then I'll know if the sizes come out right. I have had trouble getting both diameters to match up, but I remain hopeful that I can get this on the first effort.

DT

[Distant Thunder]

I won't know what I've got until I cast some but it looks pretty good so far. I need to make a spure plate and finish up a couple other minor things. Next week is going to be a short week so...., probably the following week, but we'll see.

   

[Don McDowell]

That's looking pretty good.
I had Brooks cut one for in 40 that looks pretty similar, but as yet I haven't had much of a chance to shoot it, but the few rounds I did shoot show it may have some promise.

[Distant Thunder]

Don,

I've been waiting to hear how it's going with that .40 caliber bullet. I know well how busy it can be and time to test new things isn't always easy to find. So I'll just wait, but don't forget to let us know.

DT

[Don McDowell]

DT the few rounds I've shot of it were out of the problem child Hepburn. It was trying to have it's trigger tantrum again, and that didn't help groups at 200 meters, but it does show promise. I have 25 rounds loaded and ready to go test but the weather is bit squirrely, and the elk are keeping me busy mornings fixing fence and sorting cows...I need to get some picture of it up at the very least, but I think it's going to be a good one.
If the hepburn doesn't quit being a butt head I'll load some in the 40-90 and see how it likes them.

[Distant Thunder]

Yes, I would like to see how Brooks did on that bullet. I know it shoot well for me and it would be interesting to see if it also does well in your rifles.

I'm itching to get to Lodi for my last match of the year, don't think I'll have time for any others. The weather here has finally just today cooled to a good working temperature and I've got a lot of outside work to get at. Once I get this wedding behind me this weekend and Lodi next weekend it will be a hard push to get all those outside chores done before winter arrives. I love the fall here in the northwoods, but it sure is a busy time of year.

After Lodi it will be time to switch my shooting to leverguns and prep for deer season.

DT

[Don McDowell]

Well here it is. As wrapped and loaded in Jamison 40-70 brass. Length is 1.35, measurement on the base is .400 as cast and the base of the nose at the transition is .396. Weighs in at 418 gr wrapped.

   

[Distant Thunder]

Don,

That's a good looking bullet! I like that transition, Steve did a nice job. He has made a bunch of greaser molds for me but never a paper patch mold. I haven't made enough pp molds to get half as good at it, but I enjoy making them. About every third one I hit the diameters pretty close and every clicks and I end up with a winner. The rest get recycled or toss in a box. I have no idea how many molds I have that I've made or bought that I'll never use again. I should sell a few and have Steve make a mold for me, it's always exciting to get a new mold.

I was wondering if you had it made longer for a faster twist. What twist are your shooting it out of? What kind of twist would a guy need for a 1.35" bullet? Probably 16-twist would handle that length, I think 16 is good to about 1.370-ish. I always prefer to be a little short and better stabilized.

   
Three 2-diameter ppb, left to right, beltfed's Browning ppb, my 18-twist silhouette ppb, my ppb as patched.

Both these designs have proven to be very accurate in the chambers they were made to fit. Beltfed's has the higher BC and is a good paper target puncher. Mine puts a maximum amount of weight in a short bullet for knocking over rams. It has held up very well in some nasty winds.

It does look like you're in the case a ways, which isn't a bad thing as long as your brass isn't short and you have good powder capacity. In my .40-65 I like to be out as much as possible to get 70+ grains in the case. That fixes the one problem with the .40-65, it is a little bit short on powder if you can't seat your bullets out a good bit. It is, to my thinking, the best .40 caliber cartridge when loaded with ppb. I'd love to have one with a pp chamber in a 16 or 14-twist barrel. That should reach out a fair ways. 1000 yards? My 18-twist does outstanding out 600. I just may try it at 800 at the upcoming Lodi match if it works out.

That should be an excellent bullet for knocking down steel or big game. It would be almost impossible to stop that bullet. momentum and penetration should be very high. It should also be pretty flexible as to alloy so would be a good hunter in softer lead. It on my list to use mine for deer this year or next. Those .40 caliber round nose bullet work very well on game.

When you have time to shoot some please post some targets and load info, I'd really like to know what works for you.

Thanks for the picture.

DT

[Don McDowell]

DT, I chose that 1.35 length as a comprise between the 360 gr .400 diameter bullet that has been shooting well in all wind conditions and the .396 415M bullet from BACO that does well with the extra horsepower of the 40-90 in twitchy conditions but not so well in the 40-70. The money bullet also has shot some really good groups in the 40-65, albeit was not tested in less than ideal conditions. All of our 40's have a 16 twist, so I'm thinking/hoping this new bullet works in all 3 of them. I also think that bullet should knock the stuffing out of the rams.
The nose on that is his original postel nose and I like it a lot, I've had him make a few other bullets with that nose and it holds well to 1000.
That depth was determined as it was seated out as far as I could get it to chamber without using a camming tool. I've had pretty good results from deeper seating, after close examination of a pulled bullet from and original Sharps 44-77 creedmoor round. That bullet shows a definite line on the bullet where the case mouth was, a full 1/2 inch above the base, and below the paper line. I don't use anything other than case neck tension to hold a bullet in the case.
The first loads in the 40-70 were loaded with 68 grains of OE 1.5, but the next batch is loaded with 69 grains. 69 grains is where both the 360 and 415 bullets showed preference, so I probably should of just went there to start with and maybe load testing would of been done sooner. I also use a wad punched from NAPA rubber cork gasket material and a 1/8 inch felt wad under the bullet.
We're under red flag warnings here and things are drying out fast, so I'm a bit hesitant to do any blackpowder shooting on my range. There may be some moisture a couple days from now so maybe get out some morning with a good dew and let them fly. I was happy to see the first test at 68 grains and 200 meters all bullet holes were nice and round.
Wish schedules were a bit different I would be sorely tempted to make the trip back to Lodi this fall, hopefully it works out to make the return trip next spring.

[Distant Thunder]

Don,

You would sure be welcome to join us any time you can. I would enjoy more time discussing ppb with you. I'd like to hear more of your thoughts and efforts with 2-diameter ppb.

I've spent so much time at Lodi over the past 20 plus years that it feels just home. Great place to shoot and Mark and Cliff have done a good job running the matches thru some difficult times for BPTR.

I did some looking at the .40 caliber twist thing and my feeling is 1.330-1.340" is probably the sweet spot. However, I believe with a round nose design you can push that length a bit longer. I have no idea how much longer.

My bullet at 1.250" is on the upper edge for an 18-twist, but has shot very well out to 600 yards. In May at the Lodi mid-range match I had the highest score after the two day match, higher than all iron and scope shooters. I was shooting scope because that's the way I set up this rifle up for silhouette. Because there were only 3 of us shooting scope and they require 5 for awards, my score kind of got lost. I'm ok with that, I just wanted to see how the load/bullet was actually shooting under match conditions and paper tells me so much more than silhouette or benching it at home at 200m.

I don't really shoot for groups anymore, all of my shooting is at matches. There's just isn't not enough time. So I'm very interested in your efforts with your bullet which is similar to mine. I really like that ODG nose shape and unlike some, I believe it is a good design for BPCR. It might require a few more minutes of elevation than the more pointy bullets, but that is just numbers. It just seems to me the more blunt bullets hold up better when things get twitchy and stay stable when the pointy ones struggle to hold on. I like 'em.

DT