50-70 Shiloh Sharps Military Rifle

[Kurt]

Here you go Bob.

The left two bullets cast with 1/40 T/L took a Michigan 240# field dressed buck through the shoulders and spine. Shot was a little high at a little over 200 paces but he flew sideways when he got hit with the .50.
That is the slug between the two HP 650 gr I found in the snow.


Here are some I shot through one foot thick folded wet gunny sacks backed up by two sacks full of dry saw dust. I call this controlled expansion 650 gr .50 cal HP cast with 1/20 L/T.
Next time I cast for the .50 I will cast some for you and pack them in the camper so I don't forget to bring them with me. They hit like Thor's Hammer!!!

[Eric Johanen]

The nice thing I noticed with the BACO 492/500 grain swaged pure lead bullet was that they did shoot very well and left no leading in the bore. Next time I get the molds hot I'll cast some of the BACO 492/500 bullets out of pure or very soft lead and see how they group. I have shot several deer here in Wisconsin with the 45-70/ 500 grain sized to .458 RN Government bullet from the Lyman mold and the 50-70/450 grain sized to .512 Lyman bullet at 20/1 and they left nice big holes in them! They did not go very far and were expired when I walked up to them. Through and through penetration. Not sure how much expansion one would get on a whitetail with a velocity of 1150-1200 fps? Their bodies are really not very hard or wide. The 74 Military rifle really makes a great hunting rifle ( nice handy weight and equipped with sling) The do have an outrageous "cool" factor compared to the classic deer rifles in the north woods. Will be annealing that brass for the next outing.....Panned lubed some of the Accurate Molds 51.465s bullets last night. They drop from the mold so nice and round that I did not want to screw them up by running through the lube sizer die. Too many nice rifles and not enough time to use them!

[J.B.]

Eric, that Acc. 51/465 was designed with the 50/70 in mind and has been a good performer in my 50/70 ( 1 x 36" twist) ..both on paper to 200 yds ..and on steel to 800. The lube grooves should allow ample follow up shots without the need to blow or wipe. The reduced forward band..allows for about 70-75 grns of Swiss to be loaded without too much compression at all. Hovers around 1300 fps out of mine when loaded with 3f. I've yet to shoot game with it ( no elk or black bear down here ) but it makes some sense to soften up the mix for use on larger game especially. I usually cast around 20/1 but its all been target work for me. Found this bullet didnt fair as well in my 50 x 2.5 ( 1 x 22" ) unless I kept the charge around 90 grains or so with some wads taking up the space. Certainly a lot less 'push' ..than touching off the 650 grainers in front of 100-105 grains. I havent graduated to 700 grains yet... has me a little psyched out.

[Kurt]

The 1/22 ROT with a 1.5" long 720 gr with 1/30 tin/lead set off with 118 gr of 2F KIK really makes my .50-2.5 Shiloh smile

[bobw]

Well I think you guys got my drift. I wouldn't use a softer alloy if I had to sacrifice needed accuracy to make a clean hit where it is needed to be put. My line of thought is that tissue destruction and blood loss is what brings a clean kill quickest, I don't think they worried much about that back during the buffalo hunt, just like we don't worry much about recovering our bullets from the animal to recast them....
You know the real deal is I've shot over 150 deer ,antelope, 4 elk a mtn goat and a buffalo, no it don't make me king expert either but putting the shot in the ribs thru the lungs is just auto pilot and automatic with me when I go into kill mode. Using hard solid bullets is I am sure for shoulder shooters who feel the need to break major bone structure probably more important, but not me. Place I hunt buffalo wants you to make a heart shot not break a shoulder so they run with the herd all over hell as well as slowly bleed to death from a high lung hit. Buffalo are built different and a shot behind the elbow a tad to the frt is the answer for that. And what the hell is the point of shooting deer and antelope breaking both shoulders making grind out of them? I love eating my game meat. Not much meat between ribs to waste, but going thru the lungs puts them down decent and with a little bullet expansion even faster. Till I see a hard bullet kill better on lung and heart hits myself I ain't buying it. bobw

[rdnck]

I have had great results with a 457125 Govt bullet, a 457121PH at 480 grains, and a 511 grain roundnosed paper patched bullet, all at 30-1 or 50/50 wheelweights and lead out of my 45 caliber rifles for hunting. They mushroom some and stay together and drive all the way through. Either the 45-70 or the 45-110 is a killer with this alloy. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[Eric Johanen]

Finally added 1/16" riser on the base of my rear sight (replacing the cardboard I used for testing). Loaded some of the BACO 511500 flat nose bullets to test and am casting more of the Accurate 51-465S. In the past I've seated these with all lube grooves covered in the case. This time I'll try them with the lube groove exposed and seated to the bottom of the 1'st driving band. Mocked up a cartridge and they chamber easily in my Shiloh chamber. Think I'll work up a load and try them out at a steel match. Merrill, WI. has their gongs from 200 to 500 yards and if I can get good hits at 400 with the open barrel mounted sights I'll be very pleased. I'm having a very good 2015 shooting season!

[J.B.]

Eric, I had Tom design that 465S mould with the view to have the top groove exposed and the bullet barely engraving the rifling in the 50/70. So you are loading it now as it was designed. Worked a hoot in my Shiloh 50 x 1 3/4". It was designed primarily as a target proposition and hence the exposed lube groove and the added case capacity didnt go astray either for longer range work. If I didnt want another 44...I'd be keeping mine..but I just cant jag a lottery win ! The military rifle would be a fine field gun I'd imagine.

Gavin.

[Eric Johanen]

I just finished a casting session and have a bunch of the 51-465S ready to load. I loaded the 500 grain BACO paper patch bullets for another test. 70.0 grains of OE 1.5 with card and lube wad and bullet seated shallow. Saturday morning is the next time I'll get to the range. Hope everything fly's true and centers in the black.

[Eric Johanen]

I had a chance to shoot the 50 70 Military rifle at 200 yards today using the BACO 500 grain swaged and cast bullets. Load was OS Dixie brass, CCI BR primer, 70.0 grains OE 1.5 fg with a card wad, SPG cookie another card wad and the bullets seated .225 in the case. I found them to be pretty good at that range. Horizontal held good but had trouble with the vertical because the right side of the U on the ladder is filed a little higher than the left and it was difficult to judge just how much front sight I was holding. Have to get out the files and change that. Cast bullets impacted on the left of the 10 ring and the swaged bullets went to the right side. Elevation was basically the same. 6 O'clock hold and impact between 9 and 3. Target used was the standard SR with a Dirty Bird bull in place of the SR bull. The black is a little smaller and I like it better when using open barrel mounted iron sights, (less target to wallow around on). Core group for the cast bullets went: 4wX3h with 3 shots into 2wX1h. The BACO swaged bullets core: 4wX2.5h with 3 shots into 2wX1h. Last 4 shots fired were with the swaged bullet with no fouling control. They loaded very easy and the group was 2wX3h. Really surprised by how little fouling was left in the bore by OE powder. After the 4th shot the bore was still shiny amid the fouling left in the bore. I noticed the same condition last time out with the Accurate Molds 50-465 greaser and last 4 shot with no fouling control. It sure looks like this powder burns clean! I will see how many rounds can be fired before accuracy drops off or chambering becomes difficult on my next range trip. Spending the time with load development and learning how to shoot the rifles this season, all of my Sharps rifles are really shooting well. This has proved to be time well spent and I really feel confident with these rifles performance and have no doubts shooting at distance. Pretty great way to spend a summer shooting season!