.44-77 PP bullets.

[beltfed]

Jim,
I expect, the bullet for Matt's 44-100-18twist is going to be too large on the diameters for
your 44-77 barrel/chamber.
His Hepburn had been rebarrelled with a Badger Barrel in the very early days of Lodi matches when run by Ernie.
It may even have been cut rifled before Ernie got into the "big time" and went to broaching barrels.
The bore and groove diameters are larger than (most?) current barrels. the groove dia
as measured by Matt's Cerrosafe chamber cast is at about 0.4496-0.4498 ( minus less than 0.001 for older Cerrosafe expansion)
The chamber also has about a 0.125" freebore at about 0.451" dia.
In fact Dave Gullo, upon looking at my drg dimensions said the bullet was too big diameter for .44s .
But, I think we got it right. Matt told me after receiving the mold that fit of the bullet that came with it is good for this rifle.
Baco has said they can adjust diameters on a cataloged design, but other adjustments pretty much
require a separate new mold design.
Arnie

[Distant Thunder]

Arnie,

I am a little math challenged so I'm not allowed to play with real numbers unsupervised and anyone taking my word for it may find themselves wondering where things went wrong.

So if you keep a close eye on me I'll see if it might be possible to fit this bullet to my rifle, a rifle I don't even have yet by the way.

The drawing shows .443" at the base and .433" above that. So far things look good. Now the tricky part, I'm going to do some addition and that's where I can easily get into trouble.

If I use SC 55Y which will add .005" to each diameter it looks like this, .443 + .005 = .448" at the base and .433 + .005 = .438 on the bore ride section. That looks like it should, maybe, fit my .438" bore and may or may not need to be sized a wee bit to fit my fired cases.

Please look that over and see if it is correct, I think it is. I have used 55Y successfully in my .50-70, though I do find it harder to wrap than thicker paper and there is to whole idea of two layers of paper being equal to the rifling depth or you get leading thing. I also have had occasional problems chambering snug fitting bullets with 55Y. It can crumple the edge of the paper at the corner along the top edge.

If my barrel, which I've never even seen yet, is true to the advertised .438" bore size I might be able to try some of Matt's bullets.

As far the freebore being longer that may not be that big of a deal and seating the bullet to just touch the rifling would put it at only .200" in the case. That could still shoot well and if the brass fits the chamber properly paper rings should NOT be a problem. Remember, I don't know for sure what my freebore will look like.

The .44-77 brass I have would still hold about 82-83 grains of 1 1/2 Swiss with that seating depth and minimal compression. The bullet base and wad would still be well up in the neck. It could possibly work.

I need a rifle because I apparently have way to much time to think about this stuff and I need to be shooting.

[J.B.]

Caprock... the overall length has come out at 1.405" with the base length @ .2". The transition or 'ramp' if you will looks to be about .04" to the shank or bore riding section which runs for about .445". Thence the ogive etc. This is just done with some average grade verniers but should give you an idea. This was cast in 16/1.

J.B.

[beltfed]

Jim, Yes, your math appears to be good. With the 55Y you may very well be able to shoot
Matt's bullet (dimensions) in the .438 bore barrel.
And as you said, you could always slightly size the patched base band if necessary.
I am sure you would mfg and use a very polished sizing die so as to not tear that
"tender, thin " 55Y paper. I had tried sizing some 38 cal gg bullets that I had patched
with 55Y in a Lyman H&I die. Paper ripped on the lube holes even tho I had polished the bore.

At 1.39" long, Matt's bullet it should be very stabile from your 17" twist barrel.
As said before, I had dimensioned the bullet for Matt's larger bore barrel
and also, he wanted to use some 9# paper they have on hand that adds about 0.0075 or so.
Hopefully , Matt will bring along to Rapids on Sat, a few bullets if he has had a chance to cast some. He said he is very
busy at work, even worked last Sat.
I am looking at shooting some with my 38-50 at 300yds and possibly at 600 if there is time after
the Mini Palma Setup is torn down and range re-opening....It is supposed to end at 1pm.
I am hoping to try my Caldwell Target Cam, too.
Matt has said he and a friend are coming up for the Min Palma and I also invited him
to "bring a SmokePole" if he wants to shoot a bit.. Perhaps the 44-100?????
Arnie

[Kurt]

Arnie,

You mentioned the Caldwell Target Cam, I been thinking very seriously getting one of those drones. I could put a target in the far fence line across the field and read the target through camera it carries. Also I could set it down off to the side between shots so I don't have to bring it back till I'm done to save the battery power.
My Son has one and the resolution and zoom is fantastic.
Kurt

[beltfed]

Kurt, you have a Great Idea re. a Drone to look at the target
between shots.
so far, I have only used my Caldwell to 200yds. It works well.
But, my little tablet iPad, older, has kind of fuzzy screen,
therefore, can be fuzzy target/holes.
Perhaps I need to bring my Laptop to try for better resolution
of targets.
Arnie

Arnie,

You mentioned the Caldwell Target Cam, I been thinking very seriously getting one of those drones. I could put a target in the far fence line across the field and read the target through camera it carries. Also I could set it down off to the side between shots so I don't have to bring it back till I'm done to save the battery power.
My Son has one and the resolution and zoom is fantastic.
Kurt

[Kurt]

Arnie. I think I will get one. It would be good for long range paper target and man to be able to put it in the air at a camp out in the bush.
He said it has a 6 KM range, that's almost 4 miles a lot farther than a Sharps will shoot No one needed in the pit for practice.
Here is a link of of his place, sharp video and still picture of the High School in town.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1...sp=sharing

[Distant Thunder]

I usually only size about .001" after patching and that is done with a reloading press mounted push thru die that has been tapered and well polished and while using 9# paper, that works.

I wrapped some of my .50-70 bullets with 9# paper, that bullet was made for 55Y, and they sized just fine. That 55Y is as thin a paper as I'd care to work with but it did shoot well. Because I was having trouble with the leading edge of the 55Y folding back when chambering I thought I'd try some 9# paper instead. It works just fine but I have to size the patched bullet to fit the rifle, with 9# they are .002-.003 too big. They sized just fine.

[Kurt]

Jim,
How deep are the grooves in that .50?
I get lead smears in my .40 and .44's using the 55Y. It starts on the sharp land edges and after a 1/2 box (50 or so)or so they smear it on the flats. A double wrap is just too thin for my rifles and it does not matter if I use a lube wad or not.
I ended up doing a triple wrap just to get rid of the Yellow, but I have to run it through a die so they will chamber but the accuracy did not suffer doing this.

[Distant Thunder]

Kurt,

I'd have to look that up, my rememberer doesn't work too good sometimes. It's a groove diameter ppb but I don't recall what the bore diameter is.

Well that's not quite true either, I patch to the freebore diameter, which is .510". The groove diameter is somewhat less than that. The rifle has a .510" dia. x .350" long freebore. The stubby little 490 grain bullet works very well in that chamber.