.44-77 bullets for a 19-twist barrel?

[Don McDowell]

Jim on those BACO moulds, most of them show out of stock on the web site, but if you call and order the mould it'll be in your mailbox in about 2 weeks.
I do like the adjustable moulds, they do work very well to find the length the rifle is going to like, but they're also a bit of a problem to get that heat sink base plug to heat up and cast good consistent bases.

[Distant Thunder]

Thanks, Don. I'll order the BACO .431" adjustable when things get closer, maybe next month. By then my shooting season will be pretty much over for this year and I'll have time to get a mold, make up my patch template and do some casting.

I'm also going to refinish the stock before the rifle gets back. Once the rifle is here I'll put scope blocks on it right away so I'll have that for load development. Iron sights I've got. I may make a front sight with a little something extra just because I can. This won't be a pretty rifle, the stock isn't anything special, just plain wood. It has a military butt plate. Just a very simple, plain rifle. It would make an excellent hunter.

[Nuclearcricket]

I will argue Dons point on the speed at which BACO can get the adjustable mold to you.
Now I had been told by others that they can and will turn out a mold quickly, it took me just over 6 weeks to get my mold. The same one Jim is talking about. On the plus side, they do send along 2 bullets cast in your mold and tell you to hold on to them. Nice looking bullets and its very hard to see the part lines on the bullets. The molds are very smooth on the outside and for the most part all outside sharp corners are removed and the surface finish is very smooth. I don't know what of how they do what they do but they are smooth. On the down side be very careful of the edges of the slots cut for the mold handles. Those edges are sharp, very sharp. That small issue I will take care of quickly with a pass or several with a file.
I was wondering about that base plug and getting it up to temp. I guess I will just have to work on that to see what works out best.
Other than that it seems to be a pretty nice mold but then for the price it should be. The bullet nose profile seems to be close to but maybe just a little sharper than a Postel nose. I think the right alloy and weight it will be a good shooter.
I just now need the time to clean up my projects and clean the bench off so I can fire up the pot and cast a bunch and give them a try.
Sam

[Kurt]

Jim
I use high temp silicone valve stem lube it will not run, infact I cover the outside of the mould block with a very thin coat to keep the alloy from sticking on it as well the sprue plate. with a bullet in the cavity I put a very small amount on my finger tip and rub it under the plate and top of the mould block when it's cold and wipe it off with a paper shop towel. Just leave a bullet in the cavity so you don't get it in the cavity.
You can find it at a plumbing supply.
I just cover the adjusting screw and hold it in the hot lead to preheat the base plug screw, but keep the mould block out of the hot lead and your bullet base will be sharp.
It never took more than three weeks for me to get a custom mould delivered.

[Distant Thunder]

Sam,

I look forward to your results from shooting the BACO bullet. That mold has a fairly short nose at .500". That doesn't make it a bad bullet! That would make it similar to the .45 caliber bullets I got from Ray Hopkins and test at Harris. They sure shot well there. I'll be shooting some more of these this weekend at Lodi if the rain stays away.

The only difference with Ray's bullets this weekend is that I pulled his paper off and patched them with my paper. There's nothing wrong Ray's paper I was just having a lot of trouble with the way he cuts his patches. His angle on the ends of the patches is cut very steep and the leading corner seems to want to bunch up pretty darn fast just handling the bullets for loading. I think chambering would be a nightmare! I cut my patches with a 30* angle (60*) and it seems to work better. It's rare for me to have a problem with that corner at any time in the process.

   
You can see the different angles in the above picture. You will also notice that I wrap my bullet backwards! I've tried the other way and my fingers don't work that way. The bullet on the left is Ray's and the bullet on the right is my "Lodi" bullet.

Ray's bullets shot well at Harris, this will just make it less of a problem to get that corner to slide up in the chamber. I also feel that this bullet design, the relatively short ogive, is very easy to get excellent accuracy with. At least in my experience, YMMV.

[beltfed]

Jim,
You have mentioned that you are looking to buy the BACO Straight sided "patch to bore" 0.431" adjustable
mold.
Does this mean you are now going to go with a True PP chamber, with
smaller neck dia for straight "Patch to bore" bullets?
as in Rather than a two diameter bullet for the Shiloh std 44-77 (GG) chamber?
beltfed/arnie

[Distant Thunder]

Arnie,

I will likely play with both. I'm thinking I would do just like I did with my .40-65 when I used my old Lyman adjustable mold to zero in on the best length and then make or have made a 2-diameter mold at that length.

I've never been shy on buying molds and there is only one caliber that I shoot that I only have one mold in that caliber and that would be 6.5mm. I've got so many boxes of .45 caliber molds that I could not even give you an estimate on the number of molds! It's a bunch!

Some of the brass I have is .438-ish after fireforming in Kurt's rifle and that would work well for a single diameter bullet. More later.

[beltfed]

I like your approach with the patch to bore adjustable mold to start with for bullet length study.

Here I go off topic.
Just like I am doing with my new(to me) 38-50RH.
Making do with whatever mold in my inventory until I have a DDEPP made.
So far, I have an interesting load that tested pretty good in initial load:
I paper patched a 315 grain NEI 300.358 gas check bullet. that got it up to
a good bore ride diameter. Filled the case to top with Swiss 3f/topped with 0.060 LDPE wad
and shot breechseating the bullet. 2 1/2" at 200yds. With irons and my limited eye accuity.
I continue to follow your journey with the 44-77 with interest.
Arnie

[Distant Thunder]

That's interesting, paper patching a gas checked bullet. I assume you did this without a gas check on the bullet? I would be pretty happy with that group and iron sights. For whatever reason (age?) my 200 yard groups with iron sights have just sucked bad the past few years. The .38-50 is another one of those cartridges that is very interesting to me, but I don't see that I'll have time to play with all the many fine cartridges of the black powder days.

When I started the 2-D PP development with my .40-65 I had to go to a scope because with irons I could not shoot anything smaller than 4 to 5 inches at 200! I put the scope on and things got immediately better. I have not put the tang sight back on that rifle since!

I am a bit surprised that I'm still shooting fairly well at Creedmoor matches with the iron sights on my Hepburn. I feel as though I can see the target as well as I ever have. I'm sure it won't be that way forever and that is one reason I'll put a scope on this .44-77 right out of the gate. With a little luck when the time comes to use a scope for Creedmoor the 30" barrel will make that much easier than a 34" barrel does and the .44-77 with a 17-twist barrel will have no trouble reaching to 1000 yards. I'm not sure how the recoil will be in a 12 pound rifle, but I could add some weight to bring it up to 14 pounds if need be. If I keep the bullet to something around 500 grains it shouldn't be too bad.

There's lots of ground to cover once I have my rifle back from Shiloh and right now I'm just waiting on that. I shouldn't get too far out in front of this project right now, there's only so much I can do without the rifle in hand. I do have other projects I can move forward while I'm waiting on my .44-77.

Good luck with your .38-50 and keep us posted.

[Kurt]

I'm going to carry this PP gas check a step farther.
   
This bullet is nothing new, it started back in the 1800'rds but it's not NRA legal for matches because it's a permanent attached wad. This PP bullet is groove diameter and shoots very accurately and it also scrapes the fouling.
I can attach them using my swage press and dies.
   
But these wads are NRA legal to use because they are not attached to the bullet base, they are considered a wad.
I can cut them with a Corbin die on my swage press from copper flashing sheets. Notice the dome, those wads are bore diameter and the wad is seated below the bullet base with the raised portion to the powder or a card wad between it and the powder and when the charge goes off the copper wad expands and fills the grooves. This seals off any gas and also scrapes the fouling.
These wads were developed for volley firing keeping the bore clean.