Designing the 2-diameter paper patch bullet.

[Distant Thunder]

That was his .40-72 I'm pretty sure. If it was pp, that is a very long bullet and very pointed. It shoot very well out to 800, not so well beyond that. Too long is not good, too long and too pointed makes even worse.

[Don McDowell]

Arnie on another forum says his 40 bullets weight 360 and 371 grains.

[Distant Thunder]

Arnie on another forum says his 40 bullets weight 360 and 371 grains.

Yes at the length for his 16-twist he is right about there but if I were to shorten that design to 1.240" or 1.250" for my 18-twist I don't think it would even get up to 350 grains, certainly not any more than that. I forget what length Arnie's bullet is but it would be too long for my 18.

[Don McDowell]

My 40-70 shoots the BACO .400 diameter 360 gr "creedmoor" bullet the best and most consistent of anything I've tried thru it to date. I still need to work with my new dual diameter bullet a bit, but time seems to be the biggest factor, and if I have the time to go shoot some test loads seems like the weather is not conducive to bullet/load testing.
The 40-90 bn and 360 gr bullet shoots well, and it will hammer rams real good even in the 40-65, and out of the 90 just flat makes chickens learn to fly. LOL
I think somewhere along the line we got headed down the wrong trail trying to sling long heavy bullets, and not paying enough attention to what the ODG's did.

[Distant Thunder]

I'm told a 300 grain .40 caliber will take down rams. I've never gone that light.

I have used the 350 RCBS bullet in my .40-65 successfully on rams and everything else. The only ram I have rung with my .40-65 was with a 420 grain gg bullet back in 2004. I know it will likely happen again someday with my 382 grain ppb, but so far they have all gone down when hit and I am, on average, hitting more rams than I ever did with my .45-70 and gg bullets. I also believe my chicken count will continue to improve with the .40. For me the move (back) to my .40-65 has been a good one. I like to think it is the move to ppb that has helped. It sure hasn't hurt.

There is no doubt that this 2-diameter ppb is the most accurate bullet I have ever loaded in my .40-65. No gg bullet even came close. I owe a lot of thanks to Arnie for first suggesting the 2-diameter idea to me. It will be very interesting to see how this two diameter .45 caliber bullet works out.

The .45 caliber 2-diameter ppb I made for Jeff Heeler, a copy of my .40 caliber, is working pretty well for him. Better than he was doing with any gg bullet he has used lately. This is Jeff's first serious attempt with paper patching and I believe as he learns the ins and outs of shooting pp he will continue to improve his results. The 2-diameter design works well in grease groove chambers with or without freebore. More shooters will be working with them going forward and in time we'll see what works out best for them. The more shooters using ppb the better, they are the superior projectile for BPCR. We just need to relearn some of what the ODG knew so well.

As for wrapping these 2-diameter bullets I don't find it difficult all, but I've been wrapping straight sided bullets for several years. I dry wrap everything these days. I see no advantage in wetting my patches.

I took some of the bullets I case from the first mold I made for this current project and wrapped them with my 9 lb. onion skin paper. I'm sure I'm starting the patch a little different than I would with a single diameter bullet, but I could wrap bullets in my sleep so they just "go on" and that's all I can tell you.
I could show someone how I do it, but I sure couldn't tell you how I do it. It's a lot like riding a bike, you just get on and go. I don't use a patching board, I just use my fingers and start the patch by eye and wrap the patch around nice and tight and without missing a beat fold the end over the base. A that point I like to run the patched bullet through a size die. This doesn't really size the bullet some much as it smooths out the patch to a very uniform diameter bullet to bullet. It also spanks the fold over very nice and flat. This helps make the patch stay on the bullet better while handling them, thought they usually go from the size die to the charged case, to the taper crimp die and then to the ammo box.

All my ppb bullet have a fine line in the mold at the start of the ogive and I use that to align the patch when I start it.

It's all pretty simple really.

[Don McDowell]

I wrap my dual diameters much like a straight sided bullet. I do end up with a bit of a long tag from the last corner of the patch, but I'm pretty sure that as long as the leading edge of the patch is nice and straight all is well. I wet patch all my bullets and I think it works really well with the dual diameters as the paper dries tight and smooth to the base section. Shooting into the 80's at 800 and 1k when the wind gods allow seems to suggest it's working
I won't go back to greasers unless at some point I get a rifle that just won't shoot patched (but if such a rifle does find it's way here, it may not be here long enough to get worry about). Fouling control with the bore wipers from BACO is stupidly quick ,easy and complete. I have shot some pretty decent scores in the 44-77 at 2 and 300 with the dd's with nothing more than a few puffs on a blow tube.

[Don McDowell]

I don't know what bullet Bob Englebach was shooting, but he won the scope class at the bptr nationals creedmoor this year, altho it was shortened to a 1 day match due to weather. But still paper patch shooters are getting a bit more populace at various matches and showing well. That can only be a good thing.

[Distant Thunder]

Bob won shooting pp! Well good for him! It's about time pp won at the nationals and Bob's been shooting pp for a long time. Congratulations to him!

There is no reason ppb can't shoot winning scores anywhere, anytime.

[Don McDowell]

Kenny won the scope class midrange prone shooting patched this year as well.

[beltfed]

Jim, Kurt, Don,
Just clarifying the May 2011 Lodi match results.
Actually, I shot my Ruger No 1, 12 twist 40-72 on the first day, Saturday. Did poorly.

Then on Sunday, I shot my 16 twist 40-65 HIgh Wall. using my old load of 70 gr Swiss 1.5
under my 371 gr Elliptical Minigroove bullet, Length 1.325". Chronos at 1375fps
over my Oehler 33. (Sorry, that was before I went to PP bullets)
Sunday- I had the high score at 1000yds with an 88-1X. Kurt spotting for me. Ed Nez. had an 87-2x, Jim, you had an 86-1x
At 900, Don James spotted for me : 64-2misses. Jim: 92
At 800yds,I had a 99-3X, Jim, you were second with a 95-1X I Spotted for myself, Don only scored. Kurt in the pits pulling my tgt
Jim, you Won the two day match. with a 273-3X.

Kurt, interested that you had noted bullet tipping. You would have been pulling for me only at the 900 and 800 Sunday.

Maybe that was Saturday when I shot my 40-72 when you noted tipping ??
My 40-72 , 12 twist built on a Ruger No 1 has admittedly been a struggle for me to shoot consistently.
Back in 2011 at the May Lodi match, I was shooting my BFSS(BeltFedSuperSnover) 1.55" long, 460 gr.
1325fps. It is in fact a "Pre-Money Money bullet" in form.
Great Thread, guys.
beltfed/arnie