DT, I’m not clear on whether you’re using one or two wads. Very nice targets.

Mike,

Sorry for any confusion. This latest round of development with my .44-77 began with a new mold from Steve Brooks. It is an original Sharps style round nose and was ordered with a flat base. The mold came with a cupped base.

With the cupped base I found that seating a .060" LDPE wad on top of the powder and then a .060" HDPE wad on top of that accuracy was better. The high density wad resisted pushing into the cupped base and the low density wad under it sealed the bore behind the bullet and hard wad.

Steve made a new flat base screw for the mold but it was too big. I finally removed some from the diameter and put it in the mold a couple weeks ago. I then cast up some bullets with the flat base. I had loaded 82 grains under the 2 wads and it shot well with the cupped base. I thought I would start with the same load when I switched to the flat base bullet. The results were not good with 2 wads and the flat base, too many fliers.

So on these targets today I went to just 1 wad, the LDPE wad, and upped the powder to 85 grains to maintain the same seating depth and compression. The targets I posted today used just 1 LDPE wad and 85 grains of powder. I left out the HDPE wad.

HDPE wads are much harder than LDPE wads. The softer wads, LDPE, seal better, the harder wads, HDPE, hold their shape better. With the cupped base bullets and the HDPE wad against the base the cup didn't cause any problems because the hard wad bridged across the cup well while the LDPE wad sealed the bore.

So yes, only 1 wad today.

Thanks Jim, interesting. I think you and Kurt should have a postal challenge match as you’re both working up loads…

For whatever reason when I loaded the Brooks flat base bullet with the 2 wads, 1 LDPE and 1 HDPE, I got fliers high and right in what would have otherwise been ok groups. The 2 wads worked with the cupped base version of the same bullet, but not the flat base version. That kind of surprises me.

Attached is a picture of the 5 PPB I shot today. The numbers on the bullets correspond with their listing and shooting/target order in my first post from today.

#1 is the 1.350" long Brooks bullet
#2 is the 1.350" long BACO bullet
#3 is the 1.400" long Brooks bullet
#4 is Kurt's excellent Sage bullet
#5 is the BACO 430520 bullet cut to cast at .434 diameter, Metford design.

(03-24-2022, 06:28 PM)Distant Thunder Wrote: For whatever reason when I loaded the Brooks flat base bullet with the 2 wads, 1 LDPE and 1 HDPE, I got fliers high and right in what would have otherwise been ok groups. The 2 wads worked with the cupped base version of the same bullet, but not the flat base version. That kind of surprises me.

Just for S & G's sometime, try an .030 LDPE wad over an .030 Veg wad.
Can't guarantee them , but has worked for me on my best PP loads.

Brian,

The two wads I used with the cupped base Brooks bullet is only time more than one wad, a wad stack of any kind, has worked for me. I thought maybe I had stumbled into something, but it did carry over to the flat base bullets that were otherwise identical. Go figure.

I do believe I like the flat base bullets best, but this brook cupped base did shoot pretty well.

I happen to have both .030 LDPE material and .030 Veg material. I will look at giving that a try. You never really know until you try it.

My PP load for my .45-90 Shiloh uses just a .060 HDPE wad and is very accurate. That wad alone has never work in any other rifle I have tried it in.

As a general rule, 1 .060 LDPE wad works best in my PP loads and in my GG loads back when I was weak and shot those kinds of bullets. That was years ago and I have since come into the light with PPB!

One interesting exception is my C. Sharps .50-70. That rifle shoots well with almost any wad and a GROOVE diameter PPB. The wad almost doesn't seem to matter. I have shot groove diameter PPB in it from 470 grains to over 600 grains and they all shoot pretty well. It is a turkey killing son of a gun, but I have a hard time hitting rams with it. Pigs are easy and chickens are chickens.

I will make a note of your suggestion. Thanks.

When I use the .Brooks .44 cup based bullet or some of the bullets I swage with the cup base they need either a twisted tail cut and fired so when it's tucked into the base it supports the wad to hold it from getting pushed into the cup and the wad edges get pulled away from the case wall when the charge goes off.
I normally don't twist the tail I just cut a wider patch and found the edges over in my fingers rotating the bullet and pushing the patch in with my thumb twisting the bullet. This supports the wad. I use a wad cut from Napa 1/16" Karropak gasket material that is a little stiffer than the LDPE and checking the wads on the ground the land cuts in the side of wads are full depth of the grooves. I get good accuracy doing this with the cup based bullets.
I also made a flat base plug for the mould and both get equal accuracy, But the cup based plug ejects the bullet better from the mould.

I think that from today's shooting the longer bullets seem to be shooting better in my .44-77. The exception is the BACO ADJ. at 1.350" long, it shot well. The Brooks bullet shot better at 1.400 than at 1.350. So I figure I cast some as long as the mold will go which is about 1.435. The flat base plug that Brooks made is over 1/4" thick and that limits the length I can cast.

With the BACO ADJ. mold one of the first things I did was cut the base plug down so I could cast longer bullets. If I remember right I cut it down .100" and I can cast up to 1.450" long now. I will cast some of those at the longer length also.

As soon as I get my lathe set up I will cut the Brooks plug shorter to, 1.450 to 1.460 is all I need so if I cut it down .015 to .025" I shuld be good.

All my bullets are dry patched too, I often forget to mention that. I have been using Staedtler tracing paper for all of these bullets, but just today I received a roll of Seth Cole 55W and I will give that a try also. I don't expect there should be much difference between the two papers, but I'll see. It took a few tries for me to be able to patch with the 8 LB paper being I am used to my 9 LB stuff, but the 8 LB is working for me now.

Kurt,

I don't see an advantage in the cupped base so I will likely stay with the flat base, it's one less thing to worry about. The one cupped base bullet I recovered show the base to be in perfect condition, so the 2 wad thing was working.

Jim,

I also found the bullets in the 17 ROT shoot best at those lengths you say.
The cup based are a throw back from the hollow base with the thinking the skirts will seal the bore faster but this is why the Sharps Co. twisted the tails so they would fold into the cup to protect the skirts and hold the wad in place.
This is my believe anyway.

Today I will finish casting. I hope I have enough .38's and .44's for this season. I still have plenty .45's left from last year so I'm good with them. Now all I need is the rains to stop. Alma is getting close and I want to get the .38 running reliable. With these gas pump prices I don't think I will make a lot of long trips.

Jim,

Just got a flyer from Tina Bruske for the Cadillac Midrange matches for the season.
The MRPA BPTR match dates for 2022 are as follows:
May 28-29 2022 Mid Range State Championship 200-300-600 Cadillac Sportsman's Club
August 6-7 2022 Mid Range NRA REGIONAL 300-500-600 Cadillac Sportsman's Club
Both matches will have a practice session in the afternoon on Friday before the match for anyone needing practice time. Practice follows pasting targets and range setup. limited power camping on range.

That range is pretty close to you.