Jim,

I know Brent tried the OE and didn't get along with it. I don't know just how much he worked with it.

My results using it has been very positive using the 1.5, 2 and the 3F in the .40-64 has been very good.

I test with no compression to very heavy when I work with ladder loads. Here are some of the results I get.
This is with the .44-77, .45-90, .44-100 and the .40-65.
Yes they are all 180 and 200 yard ladder loads but I cant hold the verticals down with Swiss as I can with the OE, and it has a wide range using zero to heavy compression from what I see.

But I still order the Swiss also.

When I finish a match at 50% it's not the powder load it's just me. I just cant see and shoot well anymore.

Kurt

OE generally starts to show it's best with about .2 compression. But as with most things this gets to be gun/chamber/bullet specific. This Shiloh 77 in 45-90 is a classic example, in my other 45-90's 84 grains of 1 1/2 and patched bullets really seem to work well but this one is liking 82 grains with most bullets and 81 with my new dd bullet. ( little side story, after a target rifle match a while back my hiwall, patched and OE made such a good show that one of the noted swiss users was so upset by being bested, that he insisted there was something wrong with the barrel on his rifle and the gunsmith that installed it should rebarrel and rechamber it)
I'm of the mind that if looking at making the switch/comparison to/from Swiss, it best to load the same weight of the same f size in the OE, then let the target tell the rest of the story.
In my experience OE really seems to show a preference for BR2 or RP 9 1/2 primers in the big rifle cartridges, in the smaller stuff such as the wcf cartridges and 45 colt etc, it doesn't seem to bother much by primer choice.
When testing OE if it's fouling heavy, you ain't mashing it enough. 40 round offhand match placing in the top ten with lever guns shooting the barrel sights against smokeless with target sights , and shot the entire match with only wiping the bore at the end of each 10 shot relay.
It's a good powder and when someone takes the time to do actual work with it will certainly give Swiss a run for it's money.
Contrary to some information being sported about the inconsistency from lot to lot I have not noticed it to vary as widely as Swiss has over the last few years. I was fortunate enough to receive 5 lbs out of the first case that Powder Inc received, and it didn't take me long to leave KIK and Schuetzen behind. Loads generated in the first case are still just as good with this last case.

Jim,

I'm going to start making these what I call local matches, Rapids, Merrill and Alma as well as Harris a priority. They are relaxed and fun but I do wish that they could be longer than just a one day match and set up where you have time an afternoon before the match for getting sight settings and getting some load trials. Getting sight settings for a short period before the match is fine but a 1/2 day would be better

I have come to the conclusion shooting all these ladder test loads over time that the bullet profile has more to do with accuracy than anything else.

Having a load with a particular powder charge that puts a consistent good group just changing the bullet with a different shaped ogive but the length, alloy and diameters the same the groups will change to the better or worse.

(07-05-2021, 10:53 AM)Kurt Wrote: Jim,

I'm going to start making these what I call local matches, Rapids, Merrill and Alma as well as Harris a priority. They are relaxed and fun but I do wish that they could be longer than just a one day match and set up where you have time an afternoon before the match for getting sight settings and getting some load trials. Getting sight settings for a short period before the match is fine but a 1/2 day would be better

I have come to the conclusion shooting all these ladder test loads over time that the bullet profile has more to do with accuracy than anything else.

Having a load with a particular powder charge that puts a consistent good group just changing the bullet with a different shaped ogive but the length, alloy and diameters the same the groups will change to the better or worse.

Jim, That was good shooting for the conditions on Saturday that were somewhat deceptive. I was studying the wind, mirage, and etc, during spotting for Brian.
The treeline/bushes to the left and the trees above the 500yds targets were telling
that the wind , that , as you pointed out were switching from 7:00 to 4-5:00
was "bouncing back and forth along the irregular "tunnel' of trees and brush. Not just a "clean" direct wind as would be on an open range.
Again, good shooting. That 44-77 is percolating
Arnie

Arnie,

Thank you. I was having hard time reading the mirage in the constantly moving background of grass and leaves. When JKR was shooting at 500 yards I was going by what I could feel on my back and my line flag and I had that working pretty good, but I would have preferred to see mirage.

We were sheltered from the full force of that wind by the "tunnel" of trees that the range is but that was also making reading what was really going on more difficult than usual for Merrill. It would probably have been easier to read the wind if we had been in the open. I had to go back to my car a couple of times and the wind was coming across the big field behind us and to our right and it was blowing pretty darn good.

Mirage can be a hard thing to read when the wind speeds hit close to 20 or above.

(07-06-2021, 09:26 AM)JKR Wrote: Jim and his 44-77 were shooting very, very well. Four of his seven points dropped were standing. Seems we all had our problems with that. From there he went clean out to five hundred yards where he would’ve benefited from a more experienced spotter. There was a fishtailing wind straight from six o’clock. I couldn’t pick up any mirage in the scope and should’ve picked another indicator. As Arnie pointed out, the trees would’ve been better to watch.
None the less, Jim shot a darn fine match!
JKR

I'm working on that offhand thing!

I usually practice my offhand shooting with my .22 BPCR and with it I usually shoot pretty darn well at home and with no recoil. And it's not the recoil, it's the anticipation of the recoil, it's all a mental thing.

So now I've decided to back to offhand practice with a big bore rifle, my old C. Sharps 1874 .45-70. With the scope it's 13 pounds and is very similar in feel and the same in function as my .44-77 Shiloh. Now the hope is that shooting this rifle with a really, really light bullet, 457130 collar button, and that with recoil similar to my .22 that I will learn to not react to the recoil before it even happens because it won't happen.

I thought I'd have to fiddle around trying to find a workable load for this little pellet like projectile, but the first load easily keeps the shots in under an inch at 30 yards which is plenty good for practice. I should have no trouble hitting a 4 inch gong at 50 yards with this setup.

Now if I can just reprogram my brain to not jerk the rifle like a fool when I try to break a shot offhand. I do think this is my best chance to do that.

I need to reprogram my brain to make my finger move when I want to break the shot when the sights are on the target.

Jim, Dave Crossno built me one of his 22 liners for the 44-77. Don't know if the guy running the show now would be game for such a thing or not, but it might be worth asking.