.38-50 #2

[Kurt]

Well I finally got started on my new CPA .38-50 that I picked up last winter.
I got the DZ .38-50 #3 Hepburn about as good as I can shoot it so now it's time for the CPA .38-50
For this rifle I got enough .30-40 Krag shells from Graf last winter when it was still in stock so I keep the Winchester Head stamp for the Hepburn and these BCC case head stamp for the CPA so I wont get them mixed. I have 500 Winchester cases for the Hep and I just blew out the necks with 300 cases of the BCC brass with a load of 38 HP powder and a load of COW. It did a fine job expanding the necks to the .400" OD the chamber is.

For this rifle I provided my reamer that has the original type transition instead of the now days 45º use. I much prefer the funnel type of the old days. I think they are better for the lead and PP bullets. I have several different calibers with those transitions and all shoot very well.
The 5 cases on the left I just fired in the new CPA and the 5 on the right has the 45º transition I shot in the Hepburn.

Today I just wanted to zero the scope and I loaded sone cases with two different DDPPE bullets a 371-345 DDEPP and a 371-359 DDEPP.

I just shot at 100 yards to get the scope centered and taking the first full load to finish expanding the shell to fit the chamber.
I just used some very old Schuetzen 2F powder for this job and mixed primers, nothing special for the loads. IO will say that this rifle shows like it might shoot pretty good when I get the brass fully formed and a load worked up. Those are all 5 shots at 100 yds the center paster was shot with the 371-459 bullets as well as the top that I made an elevation change after the second shot.

I think I will take both .38's to the Quigley for some 800 yard test loads. I don't get a chance to shoot long around here.

Kurt

[beltfed]

Well, that sure looks like a good start with the CPA
Good luck at the Q.
I will be shooting the Eau Claire Schuetzen matches that weekend of Father's day
I cast up over 150 of a Hoch 321-200 grain bullet in 19+1 Pb/Sn for my 32-40 BMW Hi Wall w/ CCST and a new choked barrel.
I also have to warm up my BSA Martini MKII, my Hoch 25-20, my 38-50, the BRG 32-40 Remington, as well to cover all the different matches
we get to shoot in the 3 days
Arnie

[Kurt]

Arnie I think this rifle will do it's job well when I get the brass uniform.
I has this rifle build very light weight so my two Grand Daughters age 13 and 16 can hold it. They live an hour from Friendship Indiana and they have the interest in shooting with me and both do very well with the .22 and the older one shot my Hepburn busting clay birds at 100 yards and just about done hand stands when she shot the last shell
Most matches are on hold for the rest of the season till I find out what they can do with my vision. I have an appointment this afternoon with the Eye Doc over in Rockford.
Eau Clair games are on my list but I'm researching the 1/4 bore mostly for it. I might re barrel one of my CPAs or a Browning I don't shoot much.
I know nothing about those matches held there.

Kurt

[Kurt]

It's been a silent here so I will make a little update on my CPA .38-50.

This rifle has been a problem Child on and off since I pick it up and I mostly blamed it on the brass not being fully formed.
I also got a new 20X Malcolm scope because I been having problems seeing the fine mark I want to hold on for loa work up.
This morning it was calm but overcast but this new scope is a blessing that I can see better at what I want to break the shot on.

This rifle on and off has shot well and again I had a problem keeping it on a sheet of paper, shot gun patterns I call the groups.

This time I went back to the 3F Swiss that shoots well in the Hepburn and I started with zero compression and increase the load 1/2 grain and I started using 2-1/2 Rem pistol primers and the next I used the 210 Fed GM LR primers as well as CCI LR Mag primers just to see what difference the primers make with basically the same powder load and bullet.

This morning I set up in front of the Pitt at 180 yards because of the darker target frame sitting in the Pitt.
Those pasters are 2" in diameter.

Look at the first 3 at the top and the first in the second row shot with the 2.5 Rem LP primers with zero compression of 58 grains of 3F to max compression of 60 grains of 3F the groups did not change much. The first target the left shot was from the first shot fired. I don't know if this is what made it walk that far.
The 58 grain load with the CCI bottom left I shot the wrong target but I think that wrong shot would have made that group the smallest of the bunch.
All shots where fired with out making a sight change to see shot placement in the calm no wind conditions I had this morning.

I will have to ask Brent Danielson how to compute his 2 shot method to save powder and primers

Kurt

[beltfed]

Kurt,
Looks like that 3f swiss may be the answer, along with the Rem 2.5 pistol primer

FWIW, my latest report on my 38-50 adventures was at Lodi last weekend
My load was Fed 150 LP primer/ 67 gr Swiss 1.5 ( a really old dense lot) capped with
my 371360E cast of 9+1 COWW/lino /55W paper.
First string of 10 was a 99-3X at 500yds. Best string of the weekend ahead of a 97 or 98 below me.
Made me very happy to do that with help from Brent spotting.
Second and third 500yds strings were in very bad conditions.
I was 5th for the day of 19 shooters, though.
The 371359E load shot on Sunday at 600 was ended with that days best string for me of an 85.
Some hope yet with your bullet in my rifle, Kurt
Arnie

[Kurt]

Arnie,

That 359-E might not be the best for your 10 twist. I thought about this when it did not do as well as your 360. I'm not sure what the difference in length between the two
I have that 345-E that don't work well in the Hep and I will lengthen the base on it to .300". That 371-345-E has a smaller hemisphere that the 359. is a R10 at 1.42" long making the ogive radius a little shorter than your 360. Hard saying.
My 345 is 1.4" long and the ogive is a little longer than the 359 and it does not shoot well in the CPA either, but the CPA has a 7º transition and this might not be good with it's .125 long base. It would work better with a 45º chamber end making a fillet contact.
The .225" long base is a tight fit in the CPA but it works.
I need to get my membership back at Milan so I can use the 600 yard range for development. The Corn will be picked around here soon then I can setup a 900 yard target. I want to see if the little .38 will hold up like Ian did at the 1000.

You must be using Rem brass to get 67 grains in it. 61 gr is max for my Win brass.

Kurt

[beltfed]

Kurt,
Yes, Remington 30-40 brass.
That 67 grain of Swiss is with a Very Old Dense lot of Swiss 1.5 that I bought from Mike Rasmussen.
A more recent lot load same volume, under the 360 is 64-64.5 gr. Remember, my bullet is in the case only about 0.090"
With your bullet the more recent Swiss 1.5 load is 62-63 grains. it was 63 gr that I used on Sunday under the 359
I suspect that 62 grains of that lot would shoot better under the 359. ????
Arnie

[Kurt]

Arnie,

My bullet is seated .100" in the case I just checked that. The Jamison .30-40 Krag cases hold 3 grains less than the Winchester cases.
The last lot of 2022 Swiss 61 grains is flush with the case mouth.
This last case of 1.5 22 Swiss shoots best with just the .06" wad compression.
I shot the same best 3 shot load again today but shot 15 rounds to more or less see what a 15 round would hold up and it shot 3-3/4" @ 200. I think the 3F Swiss with a pistol primer will do OK.
I also loaded some 3F OE and it went 4-1/8" with 25 rounds. But the last time I used it in the Hepburn it shot better. The CPA is still a little stinker that I have to get worked out. I did lap the bore using a brass slug I turned down to take the top of the lands down and it did some good. I might pour a 3" lead slug next and keep it indexed in the grooves.
If I cant get it settled down that barrel will turn into a 14 twist .40 and I might look for a .38 smith gain twist and screw it on.