Working up a load..

[Randy Bohannon]

mherth,

My Shiloh #1 45-70 shot lights out right from the start with 69 grains of Swiss and no the longer available 45001 Creedmoor mould from Paul Jones and have just recently received a Steve Brooks DD P.P. mould for this rifle 540 grs. 1.51” long I think that it might be a bit shorter. They are patched up to .460” at the base, this rifle loves anything that’s .460” somewhere. This will be my first with P.P. In my 45-70 I have a 1877 due at any time in 45-70 as well and wanted to get some load development started for both.
I see you’re in Buffalo , we should meet and shoot some or not just fo some hankering

[Distant Thunder]

Randy,

Your .45-70 must be a 1 in 16 twist?

[Distant Thunder]

Mike,

Over bore would mean having a bore and groove diameter that are larger than the "normal" size for the caliber. In the case of the .44-77 some or all of the original rifles had groove diameters that were as big as .452" but would not chamber a bullet over .448 if that big. I have often thought that since the .44-77 was almost always loaded with a paper patch bullet that they were made to accept a bore diameter PPB that would then bump up to fill the grooves.

My .45-70 Hepburn with its Brent Danielson PP chamber will not chamber a bullet over .452 because it is designed to shoot bore diameter PPB that are .451" in diameter. It could be that the old .44-77 rifles had a similar design. Everyone is so obsessed with the groove diameter of the old rifles it's very hard to find out what the bore diameters are. If I had one of these old over bore rifles, and I wish I did, I would be loading a bore diameter PPB and I believe that would work well.

Most often people who own one of the old .44-77 Sharps or Rimingtons end up shooting undersize grease groove bullets that are very soft so they will bump up to fill the grooves. Doing it that way accuracy can be ok but not great. That, I think, is one of the reasons modern shooters have the belief that the .44-77 just isn't very accurate, while back in the day it was known to be very accurate. Just my thoughts on the subject.

Freebore refers to a section of the chamber immediately in front of where the case ends that is at or slightly over groove diameter and has no rifling but runs into the leade and into the rifling. In some of the old Farmingdale rifles this freebore is long and/or tapered. Seating any bullet out far enough to reach the rifling is difficult in these. They can be made to shoot with some accuracy, but it can be tricky to get there.

[mherth]

Thanks Jim. Good explanation. My 45-110 is at Shiloh to get rebarrelled to 45-70, 16:1 ROT. THE 45-110 has the Loomer chamber and I just loved it but my 75-year old body finally said it’s time. I think there are interesting comparisons between the 45-70 and 44-77. I need to dig deeper into that.
Mike

[DirtySteve]

Thank for the input guys.. I hope to shoot my ladder test soon..