Lodi scores

[JKR]

Jim,
Perhaps we should talk after the next match. Something makes me wonder if that bullet might have some magical attachment to your wind coaching!
JKR

[Distant Thunder]

Jim,
Surely you realize the talking has already begun! And I am an accomplished haggler, but we can talk as long as you want!

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Funny just pretty much crickets on the Shiloh forums.

Kenny Wasserburger

[DirtySteve]

Kenny, Crickets over there because it has been 8 months since I submitted my request to join and have not got a conformation email. If I had a business I would check the forum once a day minimum.

Good shooting to all the shooters. Especially fellow paper patchers.. Nasty greasers should reconsider their life choices.. lol..

[craneman]

We had a great time!
Shooting paper patch as well through thrree Browning 45-70's with the same load and bullet.
Reading the wind and mirage is a work in progress for us, especially for my son Daniel, at 19 years he worries terribly that he's going to give me a bad call. He's learning and and it bothers him far more than me.
Every time I shoot this match I come away having learned something to help me improve for the next one.
It really is a top notch event with great competitors and I appreciate all that Cliff and Mark do to make it happen.
For those that I didn't get to meet I hope to next fall!
Todd

[Distant Thunder]

Todd,

We did get to talk a little on Friday night but not near enough to suit me. When you return in August we'll have to make an effort to spend more time talking about paper patch, your rifles and the load you guys use. I can never get enough and I like learning what other shooters are using. It's pretty obvious that the Browning chambers are very capable of handling paper patch bullets!

I would be interested in any details you care to post about your load.

The best you can tell Daniel is the only way to learn to make the correct wind calls is to make the call you see and learn from your mistakes. When I actually began to learn how to make good wind calls I was shooting with two every good spotters and they told me that you have to have the attitude of, "F" it, it ain't going on my score! Meaning that to make good calls you can't be afraid to make the call. A spotter who is afraid to call what he sees is not helping you.

I still make bad calls some times, but I learn from them and I try my best to not repeat my mistakes. I tend to make a lot more good calls because I know I will learn and correct if I make a bad call. It takes time, but you can't be afraid to make mistakes or you'll never make the good wind calls.

It helps when you are shooting with someone who understands that everyone makes mistakes and will allow you to make a mistake and learn from it. Teaching my son to spot for me was a very rewarding experience and it took a few years for some not so good calls for him to learn, but I never complained about the mistakes and he knew he had free rein to call what he saw and it really shorten his learning curve. Let him have complete control with the understanding that you will never question his calls. It is ok to point out after the fact what may have been a better call and he will learn.

[craneman]

Sage advise Jim!
Daniel started shooting with me at the Quigley when he was 10 and we have been to Alliance a number of times but learning to make wind calls out there is often an exercise in frustration! No wind flags, little vegetation often little or no mirage. He is learning and knows all I ask from him is his best estimate as to what he is seeing.
The Browning chambers are essentially the same as yours, just not as tight in the neck.
The load I have been using for a number of years is starline brass, Fed 150M primers, 82 grs Olde Eynsford. Lot to lot density variation dictates the wads and compression amount
The current lot likes one .060 veggie and one .060 ldpe compressed .2 which is the seating depth for a .446 BACO Money bullet cast 16-1 wrapped with Alvin paper to .451. It has proven very accurate but I often wonder if the 1.46 bullet length in the 18 twist gives me some of the unexplained low misses that occure when the winds get twitchy. It seems to perform well in crosswinds but fishtailing headwinds make me wonder. I'm thinking about ordering a mould with a prolate nose profile at 1.4 length and testing in windy conditions.
Todd

[Distant Thunder]

Todd,

I have found that a bullet that is not overly slender in the nose and with a fairly generous radius at the tip and a length of 1.430 to 1.440" to be very good in all winds especially the switchy head and tail winds. That is of course just my opinion.

The bullet that Jim Ruch was shooting is from a mold that I shortened to 1.440" before I loaned it to him. I shot it for a couple of years at 1.460" and it did very well at mid range and okay at at Creedmoor. That bullet did very well for Jim in some pretty rough winds. He had a 92-1X at 800 on Sunday when I finally had some mirage that I could count on being useable through the whole relay. Once we found the right combination of flags and mirage we were shooting 10s with ease and I was giving him 1/2 and even 1/4 moa and the bullet was taking the correction very well. I just could not get another one to land in the X-ring! So many times I would give a green light and before he could break the shot it would change again and I have to have him hold. We would wait for things to return and they would and then we go again. A few times we repeated this go then hold 3 or 4 times before we would get one in there, but it would be a 10 or at least a 9. The elevation held very well throughout. That 92 was the high point of the match for me and gave Jim a good 2nd place finish.

Good spotting is made easier by good shooting and Jim shot very, very well!

While pulling targets I always look at holes. Jim were perfectly round throughout the weekend. Kevin was shooting a very good bullet too but at 1.460" long and his holes were not always round, not real bad just not round. It's things like this that I have seen over my 24 years of Creedmoor that have formed my opinions.

I believe Kevin's bullet would do much better for him if he added about 5 grains more powder, from 77 to 82 grains, and if it was 1.430 to 1.440 long. I plan to take that same bullet and shorten the mold to 1.440" and give it a try. I already know it will be a better bullet in my 18 twist, I just want to prove it to myself again.

Many people don't believe when I tell them that shortening a mold to 1.440" from 1.460" can make a difference, but I have seen it happen every time I done it over the past several years. If you can drive it faster at 1.460", say 1350+ then it will also improve in an 18 twist, but the .45-70 is hard pressed to get much over 1300 even with shallow seated paper patch bullets.

Shorten your mold or get a shorter one and you'll see the difference.

[Kurt]

I used two calibers. On Saturday I used the CPA .45-90. It took several shots to find paper because that rifle I just mounted a new DZ on it before going to Lodi but I cant judge how this combination because it was just to tough holding center the way the winds pushed me around sitting on a stool. Even bending over to get a lower profile did nothing but put a goose egg bruce on my shoulder from getting the buttplate out of the pocket Cant remember ever getting one before .

Sunday I used the .44-77 Shiloh Farmer that Steve Rhodes chambered with what he called a tight chambered 7º transition, but it's far from being tight when a polly wad falls out of the case mouth when you turn it upside down
I used two bullets during the sight in at the 1K testing both. One was a bullet from the Sage mould that is 1.457" long .443" diameter and weighs 510 gr with my alloy mix. and it shot very well but I only had 4 shots using it, but it will get tested more at Harris next week.

For Sunday I used the BA 441-505-M. It's 1.440" at 499 gr with my alloy mix. Things were working very well at the 1K but I dropped one off the target around 7 to 8 because of an unseen change but it gave me a 73 with one miss at the 1K so I know this rifle and using a new lot of 84 gr of 1.5 Swiss untested will shoots well with a little work.

[newrib]

HI All ,
The shoot at Lodi this year was Great ! The wind was really something , I have never shot in wind like that. I have my squad mates to thank for the good scores, Richard Cady and Sam Thompson were great at spotting and wind calling. I have only been shooting BPCR for a short time. My first match was 3 years ago, I had the good fortune of being squaded with Jim K. and Richard C. at my first shoot. it helps to have experienced squad mates . No one was more surprised than me when Cliff announced the standings at the end of the shoot.
The rifle used by me in this match was a Shiloh Sharps 45/70 with the Shiloh PP chamber, 34" 1 in 16 twist barrel. MVA sights. The cartridges were WW brass, CCI Bench Rest primer, 84grs Swiss 1.5, .060 Walters fiber wad and a .060 ldpe wad with a BACO 444530E paper patched 16 to 1 alloy bullet. The bullet measures 1.460 long. To be absolutely honest this combination of rifle, ammo and shooter shoots about 2.5 MOA at 100 yards for 10 shots on a good day.
I wish all happy days and great shooting !
Tony Martello