a little fun with paper patched bullets and the .45-2.6

[Don McDowell]

Chris I think the powder they used was similar to the various 1 1/2 f powders we shoot today.
I think rifle fit has a bunch to do with felt recoil. The hi wall spitting a bullet at around 1340 is pretty manageable for me, but it weighs just a touch over 12 lbs, and with the long barrel is fairly muzzle heavy. On the other hand the 40-90 bn in the #1 shiloh should be a nasty beast as it has a standard weight 30 in barrel, but with the limbsaver pad, its not bad.

[Gunlaker]

Don thanks for the info on the powder.

Recoil on the internet is a funny thing. I think lots of people say that recoil doesn't bother them but I think that what they mean is that it doesn't hurt. Accuracy suffers before I reach the pain threshold for sure. I used to have a .50-140 that I shot with 698gr bullets and 135gr of Fg. It didn't hurt, but I couldn't shoot it very well :-) :-).

I've learned over the years what works for me for sure. With heavier rifles like my 16 lb Shiloh in .45-110 I can shoot heavy charges, but in a non-Tollofson weight rifle I do better keeping loads a little softer.

My Borchardt might be my best fitting rifle. That one weighs 14lbs and my load for it is a Baco 458535 Money at around 1340 fps. In that rifle it works great, but not so much in my light weight highwall.

I'd stick with the Borchardt as my permanent long range rifle as I think I can get a little more out of it ( slightly better SD, and a mini-groove bullet ) but I'd feel more comfortable if there was a local gunsmith who was a Borchardt expert.

I think where I'll likely end up is with my .45-2.4" or my .45-2.6" Shiloh Long Range Express rifles. I have one last Creedmoor rifle in the plan. It's going to be a Tollofson rifle, probably set up like Jimbo's or Kenny's, although I might drop it down to a 16 lb barrel. That one won't likely get built for several years though. I started the order last year and the folks at Shiloh said they won't likely be doing any bull barrels for some time.

Chris.

[Kurt]

Chris I have a heavy rough rider Shiloh I had build for the Tollofson class that has a 1.300"X35" Krieger barrel chambered in the .44-100 Rem st. with a 1/17 ROT that I have shot the most tight consistent groups with. One you could cover 10 shots with a 1/2 dollar that is smaller then your Bear that I don't use it hardly at all. I don't like dragging it around because it's just to heavy, but man does it shoot!!!
I think this year when I shoot the Q I will take that rifle back to Shiloh and have them shorten the barrel to a 32" and taper it to 1.200"x 15/16" at the muzzle and rechamber it to a .44-77. and use it for the long range and the gong shoots.

[Gunlaker]

Kurt that sounds like a keeper for sure! I like the Tollofson rifles quite a bit. My #3 in .45-110 with the 16 lb barrel is technically a Tollofson class rifle as it's overweight for the regular LR matches. I haven't shot that one in a match mainly because of the difficulty getting a decent cheek weld when the sight is cranked up.

Last year at the Byers regional match I kept score for Jimbo during the 1000 yard "money match" and watched him shooting that big .45-2.6" Tollofson rifle. Man can he shoot that thing. I think he was the only one to score better than 80 on all three targets. That's unbelievable shooting, especially given that he spotted for himself with tight time constraints!

Chris.

[bruce moulds]

don,
that heart stopping thing made me laugh!
personally i think my brain stops, literally, when a round above a certain recoil level goes off.
probably to protect itself.
the back (supine) position might make recoil a little more user friendly.
my limit seems to be 90 gns of poeder and a 540 gn bullet where i can follow through on the shot.
hence the interest in fast twist 40 cals.
have ordered a new 13 twist 400/408 barrel to replace a shot out one, and am in the process of designing a 40/85 ballard reamer for pp bullets.
this should allow 90ish gns of powder with a 440 gn bullet, same b.c. as a 540 gn 45 cal.
keep safe,
bruce.

[bruce moulds]

chris,
jimbo would not have had time to chook around.
could that be the secret?
make a call and go for it.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Gunlaker]

Bruce, I think his secret is that he's one hell of a good shot, and wind reader :-).

Chris.

[bruce moulds]

chris,
yes that would help.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Don McDowell]

Bruce I think this 40-90 Shiloh with it's 16 twist will work fine for long range with a 415 gr. patched bullet. I had real good results at Alliance with it shooting brand new unfired cases with 90 gr. of OE 1f. Then a classic example of not thinking/brain fart , the results with those fire formed cases at Byers was a bit dismal,, I forgot to account for the fire formed cases having a good bit less taper, and the shoulder being moved forward somewhat. I have since figured out those fire formed cases need 3 maybe 4 gr. more powder to achieve the same volume of drop tubed powder and compression levels. Oh well live and learn.

Byers is a tough place to shoot. One of the comments made by a couple of first time shooters, but well versed in long range matches, was that if they ever held the nationals here, the majority of shooters would be so disgusted by their scores they probably wouldn't come back.. That's what makes the High Plains challenge such a great match.
Jimbo is very adept at picking up those conditions, whether he's doing it for his self or someone else. Hugh Wilson,Jack Odor and Zack Taylor are also great to have giving wind coaching.

[bruce moulds]

don,
you make me laugh again.
because i have also done that, and other things as well.
only last week i droptubed a charge onto the floor AGAIN.
if you don't laugh, you might tear your balls out instead.
keep safe,
bruce.