Never had this happen before on the range

[Eric Johanen]

Two incidents on the range in the last month really surprised me. My friend Dave asked me to shoot one of my AR's and we went to the range with one that has a scope on it, Figured it would be easier than iron sights to get him on target. He had fired the early model back in service in the 60's, both M14 and M16. I explained to him the sight process with a scope and we spent 20 minutes getting him able to use a scope. He could not see through it and I was almost at a loss as to what the problem was as it's a simple concept. Finally he moved his head back a bit further and could see the full circle view through it and was able to shoot. He had no concept dealing with eye placement using a scope and I'd never come across this before. Once he got it he did very well and had a great time. 2'nd surprise was with a old friend using a iron sighted rifle. With the barrel mounted sights he just could not understand what I was telling him about the sight picture and placement on the target. Front blade position in the rear notch and placement on the bull. He has not used irons before, only a scope and just does not seem to be able to adapt. Drawing sight pictures did not help. He could not explain what he was seeing with sight picture and target. I was prepared to file in the sights based upon a accurate load he has been using at 100 yards. Put that on hold until we can communicate and he understands what I/m trying to tell him. I do hope a deer is in close for him this season as he's very likely to miss or wound if there is any distance involved. I've been trying to get him to shoot more but it's a problem. I was surprised as I have never run across these problems before. First one we got resolved, but the second one is going to take some time and a lot mire shooting,

[Old Jim]

Eric's post got me thinking about my early-on exposure to learning to use open sights.
Early on in my shooting career, I learned to use open-sighted rifles, usually at a family gathering. Many games got my attention, but now in my '80s, one really sticks out. A large oak tree received the blunt of the .22 rounds fired, as there was a natural hole where the smallest of targets were placed. The target of the day ended-up being a simple wooden kitchen match. Many of the contestants could get a hit or two, but it came down to who could light the match with a single shot .22 open-sighted rifle. The winner it seems was always the same person ..... grand-dad!

He won his last shoot at the age of 94, without eye glasses to aid his vision.

I still take the old .22 rifle out to the range, its great to remember those olden, golden days.

Jim

[Randy Bohannon]

I grew up with a bb gun and eventually pellet guns and learned to kill things with their rudimentary iron sights.We could see the trajectory of the bb and get pretty good at killing quail in the trees in the creek bottoms.I could alway shoot well ,throw rocks, sling shots, archery and guns.I was never more tickled than learning I could shoot amazingly well with the BPCR's and really good sights.
Your friends experience reminds me of getting my Son started with scopes. He was doing the leaning over the stock trying look with his left eye, he's right handed L eye dominate. Bought him left handed stuff he does fine now.

[Nuclearcricket]

Randy brought up an excellent point, your friend that your trying to teach to use open sights might have an eye dominance problem. I honestly dont know if that would show up with shooting with a scope or not but it is something that is easy to diagnose. Just have him look at something and then cover that object with his right thumb. Then just cover one eye and see if the object is still covered. If you cover his left eye and the thumb doesn't cover the object any more then he is left eye dominate. From there you can then work on a solution.
Sam

[Eric Johanen]

I'll be sure to check this tomorrow when we have another range outing. I was surprised as I've never encountered these problems before when instructing new shooters or experienced ones trying something new. Much head scratching with these two incidents.

[Kurt]

Jim I been through that match trick when I was a Kid. I had a uncle that was eccentric but I liked him. One day he said I want you to light this match, I said OK, well I figured he would stick it in the ground but no he held it in his fingers. I said I cant shoot it while your holding it...yes you can.... well I shot and missed that match at around 25 feet or so but he never even blinked and said you missed now hit it. I shot again and shot the match head off and he said you have to just skim over the white to make it lite up. I raised the rifle again and just then my Mother came out of the house with a towel in her hand yelling and used it on both of us and took the rifle out of my hand and would not let me have it again till he went home

Eric I can understand teaching someone how to use barrel sights. I went through this with my kids and grand daughters. Drawing them a sight picture on how to see and align the front with the back. What I did for my grand daughter when she was 6 I drew her a sight picture and when I saw she was still having a problem lining the sights I went and got some fish line and scotch tape and taped the line on the front and back sight and I told her to see as little line or no line on the target and shoot, that worked because the hits where just below the bull then I took the line off and said shoot some more. That was enough for her to understand how to use the sights.
But after all was done and the older girl wanted to shoot it hit me here I had her hold the rifle right handed and she is left handed.

[Fogman01]

My wife is left handed - right eye dominate. She has a hard time with barrel sights not because she doesn't understand the picture but because she keeps changing eyes and changing what she sees. Putting her head over the stock to shoot strong hand, strong eye doesn't work even with a .22. Strong eye, weak hand; weak eye, strong hand? She is most "comfortable" shooting a scoped rifle right handed and using the right eye. But she has trouble being able to close the left eye and use only the dominant eye. We are going to try putting a patch on her shooting glasses so she will be able to keep both eyes open. I am going to have her try a red dot sight on a handgun but right now it's on my S&W 500 and I know she won't like shooting that whichever eye she uses. (Most people close both eyes when they shoot that gun.) It's very frustrating for cross eye dominate people to learn to shoot and for instructors to teach them. Finding a consistent shooting stance does not always result in a "natural" or "comfortable" position for them... the way rifles are made and the way their bodies work, the aiming process doesn't feel "natural" or "comfortable". It takes a lot of perseverance but knowing the cause is a big help.