Browning 1885 BPCR

[Robert L]

I have been using a Pedersoli Sharps for many years but recently bought a Browning 1885 BPCR (45-70). I am shooting a 550 grain GG bullet that worked extremely well in the Pedersoli but I seem to be having some issues getting it to work in the Browning.

The Bullet: 1.41" OAL
Nose .449
Driving band .456
Remaining bands .458

Nose pour HOCH mold. 20/1 alloy

Seated over .060 Walters wad and 63 grains of FFG GOEX.

In the Pedersoi I seated the bullet with two bands out of the case. With the Browning I have to seat the bullet with the driving band and the first groove out of the case. In other words about an 1/8 of an inch deeper.

In order to get a feel for what works and what doesn't I I compressed the charge enough to get the bullet to chamber just touching the rifling. I varied the powder charge by 1 grain up and down but found the 63 grains seemed to give the best consistency. Unfortunately this was all done at 100 yards. I know that is not ideal but it was all I had available reasonably close to home.

At 200 and 300 yards (different range) it seems to hold 1 - 1.5 MOA. At 400 and 500 yards it's all over the place. Nothing even approaching 1 - 1.5 MOA.

My question then is this: Does the Browning require a certain dimension bullet, powder, loading technique to preform at its best and hold acceptable group size at all distances?

[Don McDowell]

Everything sounds pretty good except you don't have enough powder to make a bullet that heavy shoot well in a 45.70, and that's what is causing your bullets to loose stability pst 300. I would look at a lighter bullet and more powder and watch things come together. I won the Sharpshooter midrange position match at the BPTR Nationals last year shooting a 45-70 Browning bpcr.

[Robert L]

Don,

Thanks for the suggestion; however, I have used this load/bullet for over 15 years in a Pedersoli Sharps with excellent results. I might tend to agree with you based on just the bullet statistics but in practice the 63 grains of FFG stabilizes the bullet just fine.

A difference I did note regarding the bore dimensions/rifling; I forced the above described bullet through the bore of the Browning. I had to tap the wooden dowel I used to push it through but I didn't have to do much more than light taps. The bullet showed very light engraving , by the rifling. On the Pedersoli, I have to rap the dowel quite severely to get the bullet through the bore and it comes out with very distinct rifling grooves engraved on its circumference. I had a fellow shooter tell me that the Browning's like a .460 diameter bullet. Based on the results of the rifling marks on the bullets I think I might have better success with a new bullet mold that produces a slightly larger diameter bullet. That's not to say that a change in the amount of powder is not out of the question but the bullet test seems to me to deserve the bulk of my attention today. Tomorrow I may think differently?

My intent with this post was to gather info on the Browning's since it is a new gun to me and I assumed that anyone owning one would have already invented the wheel, so to speak.

[Don McDowell]

Robert shooting a Browning BPCR 45-70 , with ww cases primed with RP 9 1/2 primers, 70 gr of Olde Eynsford 2f , under a .030 fiber wad and a BACO JM459520JM1 cast from 20-1 seated to the driving band, I was able to win the Sharpshooter class at the Black Powder Target Rifle National championships just last year.
I fired on target 40 the last day of the match, pay particular attention to the spotter disc on target 40 in this picture, note it's a bit further out than 100 yds, and while it was the last shot fired it was not the only one to land in that x ring.

So now what can you tell me about the "excellent" results you got with your bullet in the pedersoli rifle?

[rdnck]

Robert, you are not driving the bullet fast enough for it to stay stable at 300 yards and beyond. Use a compression die and load 69 or 70 grains of 2f powder and you will have your answer. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[craneman]

Robert,
I agree with the others, you need to get to around 70 grains.
If you really want to get results you should look at the BACO money bullet with reduced front driving bands designed for this chamber. Easiest bullet rifle combination I've ever had to work up a load for and incredibly accurate.
At the Quigley this year my buddies daughter was holding about 3" of vertical on the 405 yard diamond when I was spotting for her.
Todd

[Lumpy Grits]

"At 200 and 300 yards (different range) it seems to hold 1 - 1.5 MOA. At 400 and 500 yards it's all over the place. Nothing even approaching 1 - 1.5 MOA."
That's because it's go'n to dang SLO.........

YES, up the charge. Different gun=differnt load specs.
Don't compress with the bullet
Get the correct die.
G.

[Rick Mulhern]

80 grs. 3F with the BACO MB at 1-20 alloy shot very well for me in the Browning rifle I once had in 45/70! At 800 yards I shot a few ten shot groups I could cover with my baseball cap...not counting the bill!!

[Rbertalotto]

I've got a BEAUTIFUL Winchester BPCR in 45-70 that I can't get to shoot also.

Is this the "Money" bullet you folks are talking about

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=236328

[Hiwall55]

No Rick is talking about a .446 money Paper Patch.
Go to Buffalo Arms and look at Jim 459-520 M1