Another rifle bits the dust using smokeless

[Hiwall55]

O boy I'm glad this guy joined so he can tell us that all shooters who load and shoot BP are idiots. I really cant wait for his next informative post.

[Don McDowell]

Warning has been sent.

[rdnck]

Another dufus fooling with smokeless. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[Lumpy Grits]

Warning has been sent.

Glad you did Don-I was about to do the same!
Probably won't be back anyways.
Gary

[Martini2]

This topic of fuel used in BPCR rifles is full of pitfalls. I have and will continue to use either of the fuels that fit the occasion and purpose of reloading. The example of someone misusing smokeless in these cavernous cartridges is self- evident. If indeed the individual admitted to using exceedingly over charge load then he is blessed to come out alive. Reference from Lyman Loading guide #49 gives good intel about relative pressures involved. A sensible load to replicate BP power I use is 25 gr. IMR 4198 i.e. 11000-12000 psi. That pushes out the 458132 ,530 gr bullet at near 1200 fps with 34 inch barrel. Now also note that Pedersoli Factory directions recommend NO smokeless Loads in any of their BPCR rifles. So the individual is “at their own risk”. I’m not sure how factory 45-70 ammo is loaded today and have never used any. It’s hard to find commercial BP loads too so we are left to handloads. To the ardent BP users I grant there due, I’m attempting to convert my 40-65 to dedicated BPCR Silhouette at this time. Please bare in mind there has been progress in both firearms and propellants since the 19th century. Otherwise our nation would have been firing black powder rifles in WW2. The tell tale smoke and rifle function stoppages may have replicated the Little Bighorn battle several times over for USA. This past weekend my 40-65 participated in 50 point gong match 100-400 yards (we fire 2X at 300). It burned up 70 rounds with sighters without cleaning the rifle. In fact the bore stayed the same shiny state through the whole lot. The load was 410663 and 4198 at about 1300 fps. The chamber pressure was while below the 28000 psi proof of Pedersoli ’74 Silhouette rifles. When my health allows I look forward to filling brass with 2F OE. For about the same velocity (according to rear sight elevations) and entering official BPCR match. As far as our LUCKY site acquaintance whom ignored printed Factory instructions and double charged cartridges with double base powder, like the DUKE said “having him along on the trail is like losing two good men”.

[Don McDowell]

There's nothing wrong with running smokeless in new manufactured bpcr's so long as a person pays attention to the load manuals. Sadly to many people think that they can turn the 45-70 into a 458 lott, or a 40-65 into a 416 rigby lite, and that's where the trouble starts.
Another common mistake is trying to run powders on the fast end of the burn rate charts. Powders like 4895 and 3031 and slower do a fine job in the big cases and pretty much eliminate the chances for double charge.What drives me nuts is the number of idiots on the internet trying to pass Trailboss and the like off as good bp substitutes. It's pretty obvious they have never spent any time looking at pressure and velocity data.
If I were doing nothing but an occasional gong match, I probably wouldn't mess with black, or tang sights for that matter. But the problem with jumping back and forth from smokeless to black is you don't get into good fouling control process when you go back to the black, and that's where bpcr matches are won and lost. Not to mention the carbon fouling left behind by the smokeless will raise holy ned with black powder fouling if not completely cleaned out. As far as that goes good blackpowder shooting also requires removing the carbon fouling.
Those folks that are into smokeless would do very well to spend the money on a subscription to www.loaddata.com

[Lumpy Grits]

Don, well said and X2
Martini2, do what the Doctors say, and heal fast
Gary

[Fogman01]

The luckiest person at that range would not be the shooter but the innocent guy at the bench next to him. The guy who had nothing to do with it and had no idea he was shooting next to an idiot. He was lucky he wasn't hit with the shrapnel. The closest range around here is busy and has every bench filled and that would have meant an innocent could have caught a piece of this idiot's mistake. How could you live with something like that?

[Martini2]

Well I think the moderator has the better overview. There is a great deal to be said about what fellow competitors on a line might expect safety wise. Fortunately, the individual experienced rifle problem perhaps isolated enough that others did not suffer from parts and pieces when the rifle gave way. It might also be said that any mishap was not the rifles fault. Please note I’m a certified NRA Range Officer. When accidents occur on range the consequences can be nothing to banter about. I’m obligated to seek medical aid. There is always a medical KIT in the truck. That location is described to participants at before match safety briefings. In addition, there would be a lot of paperwork and clean up too. Everyone’s fun on the range will stop until the entire incident is handled properly. At that point it really does not matter which fuel a cartridge is inappropriately loaded with. There always seems to be a few individuals that will cross a line. Example is one BP shooter recently that admitted (wink wink) he added a little something to his BP loads to make them burn cleaner i.e. duplex. I’ve also had to explain to one shooter copper gas checks were a no no. Anytime I have scores recorded in my little blue book at official BP match I’d welcome authorities to pull apart a random round from my loading box because it is 100% what that discipline is regulated to. To be sure it is incumbent on some of the wise old-timers in BPCR to share their knowledge and experience. So, in some kind way those less savvy in handloading gain the right process and to aim small.

[rdnck]

I think you give the newcomers too much credit. The ones I have dealt with already know it all, or at least figure it out to their satisfaction in very short order. Shoot straight, rdnck.