50/70 bullets

[bobw]

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on the reloading part. As I believe it played a major part with the buffalo hunters( pro ones anyway) too many bill of ladings and sales receipts still exist outlining reloading components sold with a few hundred factory loads to discount the importance of it. Sharps's shell reducer only tighten the neck for bullet tension and a whole lot of bullet molds were sold by them to service the hunters needs. No mention anywhere from hunter reports of hulls splitting just an occ need to tighten necks. Can't remember Elmer Keith saying that the old hulls were bad either and that was what he was using. Those Creedmoor shooters were testing different alloys all the time and bet they weren't factory loads either. With the original style chamber much if any hull work was eliminated with ppb loads now greaser loads and chambers cut for the use of them is a different story. Those guys prolly shot factory greasers anyway because they sure weren't to worried about performance from them. bobw

[Don McDowell]

Bob you do know that Winchester provided patched bullets to "customer specifications'?
Read what Fruend wrote to the Sharps factory about hunters being blinded and knocked out when trying to force a cartridge in the chamber...
While there was some reloading going on, it wasn't near the extent that we do today. As Perry stated "throw the brass away after the second firing"
Billy Dixon wasn't a professional hunter??
As for Elmer Keith, by the time he started in with things the brass recipe had changed a bunch, read WD Dodges account of their experiments trials and errors at Winchester trying to get longevity in the brass.

[Kurt]

I think the riflemen back then probably did more searching for better performance from their rifles then we do today. Not just from hunting but also for shooting matches. Proficiency of the rifle was a big thing back in those days and a lot of the ways they did things where never written down.
The gun writers and match shooters are no different back then then the keyboard shooters are now most likely. Probably the writers in the past did a lot of the field work seeing what works before they put it in writing instead of making assumptions or repeating what someone else wrote.

Kurt

[Don McDowell]

I don't think even the big time creedmoor shooters of the day fired as many rounds as the typical rifle looney does these days. The economy during the post civil war years was just the pits, with one continued recession/depression right after another. The money to shoot the number of rounds we do today just wasn't there. Sharps failed because they couldn't sell enough rifles to stay in business, and that in affect happened before the buffalo hunt was over (1875 the first time). Remington would of been the same route had they not of had those European contracts on the rollers. Winchester was able to dable back and forth with the civilian and military markets, plus they had their own ammunition plant.
Homer Fishers' catalog from 1880 still carried a wide variety of muzzleloaders.
We have it plumb easy compared to what those old dead guys went thru. Times were tough.

[J.B.]

So Mike, have you had a chance to push that 50/70 beyond 200 yds yet ? Just interested to see how it's all going is all.

rgds.. Gavin.

[Mike]

Gavin, No, I haven't tried the .50/70 beyond 200 yards, yet, and we have a match coming in a week that will be shot at 200 yards, so my concentration remains with that. I did shoot a little test recently, comparing the Lyman #515141 bullet with the copy of the bullet in a Lee mold. The bullets from the Lee mold have a wider base band and they are 15 grains heavier that the bullets from my Lyman mold. And the bullet from the Lee mold group better than those from the Lyman mold. To say the least, I'm pleased with the bullets from the Lee mold, more than I thought I'd be. Shoot sharp, Mike

[J.B.]

Interesting feed back on the Lee mould Mike. I havent tried their moulds in a long time. The Lyman Govt design seems to be pretty hard to go past when it comes to the 50 x 1 3/4". If I was on the 'same block of dirt', I'd send you some of the Accurate bullets to try out.. although you'll have to put up with an exposed lube groove .. it's not that bad. Have you shot that upcoming match with your 50 yet ? Hope it went well for you. With my other rifles all just over weight... if I ever get another chance to shoot silhouette.. the smaller 50 may well be the rifle I use.

...Keepyapowdadri..
Gavin.

[Mike]

Gavin, That match is still five days away and I'm still getting ready. Of course, I'll never be completely ready. We'll see how my practice shots go with Wednesday. Which Accurate bullet are you using? And, one detail I didn't mention when talking about the Lyman and Lee bullets for the .50/70, the bullets I had cast with the Lyman mold were with either "range lead" or 20-1, I can't recall. But the bullets cast with the Lee mold are with 16-1 alloy, that I'm sure of. So, maybe the harder bullets are flying just a bit truer. At least, that's what I am the happiest with so far. Shoot sharp, Mike

[J.B.]

Hi Mike. The bullet I was using was the '51-465s' I mentioned earlier. That was the bullet I used to shoot out to 750-800 yds.. though admittedly, I wasnt shooting on paper, it was producing the goods to 800 but the trajectory made it very easy to over or under shoot the gong at that range. Most of my casting in the last 12 months has been in the 16/1 range but I havent solved the leading issue in my sons 40/70. Still a work in progress... but then again... so am I. !

rgds.. Gavin.

[Mike]

Ah yes, 51-465S. Do you size that to .510" or shoot it lubed but un-sized? So far I've sized all of my .50 caliber grease-groove bullets to .512" Shoot sharp, Mike