Development of PP loads for the .44-77.

[Distant Thunder]

Second 5 at 100. The only thing I did was to change to a known powder and I adjusted the scope toward center.

450 BACO #431ADJ wrapped with 9# Paper Mill 100% cotton Onionskin
.060 LDPE wad
76.0 grains of Goex 2f
The above described brass
Federal 210 LR primers
3.310" COAL, This leaves the bullet seated .200 in the cases with about .060" compression.

   

Number 2 is over there to the left again! Other than that it's a step in the right direction.

Next up, Federal 210 primers. I have often used 215 primer with this Goex so I may try that yet today.

[Distant Thunder]

Two more groups at 100 as I look for what this rifle will like.

Everything the same except I used Federal 210 LR (Lower) and 215 LRM primers (Upper).

   

To me the 210 group looks a bit better, tighter core group and less vertical.

So I'll take the 2f Goex and Federal 210 LR primers and try 76, 78, 80 and 82 grains and see what it looks like. I'm also ready to move to 200 meters the scope is sighted in and 200m will tell me more about how the loads are shooting.

I'm looking for groups at 200 that are like the last two at 100, something under 3 inches and if 3 inches it should be 10 shots.

This so far is going better than the load development with my .40-65 and that turned out real well. There are a lot more things I can do to improve the groups as I look for a load I know can win any match I enter. That then leaves the on going work of dealing with the old guy that's pulling on the trigger!

[Hiwall55]

Kurt, measures. 072-.076 , checked in 3 places on 3 shells. Everyone will check different in all 3 places. They are new brass.

[Griff]

Two more groups at 100 as I look for what this rifle will like.

Thanks for taking the time to keep us updated. I'm really appreciating monitoring your progress.

Griff

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Distant Thunder]

I loaded some more before supper that I'll shoot tomorrow. All with Goex 2f at 76, 78, 80 & 82 grains. If one of them groups pretty good I'll probably try some other primers and wads next. It's time to move out to 200m tomorrow.
I've got 1 1/2 Swiss to try and KIK 2f too. Oh yeah, some 1f Goex too.
I've also got 3f in both Goex and Swiss, but I don't think those are powders for this case.
I'm still fireforming brass here too, things will settle in some more once these are blown out completely. That's probably at least 2 firings.
The recoil off the bench is noticeable but the lace on recoil pad prevents the military buttplate from biting me. It a good push though. I wonder how the 500 plus grains bullets will be.
Having for sure!

[Kurt]

TNX. Bill

[J.B.]

Very promising from the 'get go' Jim. As for your custom brass making skills... they are way above my pay grade but impressive to read and see. I also tried a few 45 basic shells a few years back in the time between Jamison folding for the first time....and Captech commencing. They worked fine ..and as you say...they will work in a pinch but its nice to have the spot on dimension brass if you can get hold of it. Touch wood ..I've not lost a case but being aware of how scarce they are now...I'm pretty careful with them. I got caught up with the 44/77 when chatting with Kurt and Don.. and my need to have something different from the norm...made me take the plunge. I've no regrets... it was as easy to get to perform as any of the other cartridges I've played with and no more 'fussy' either. I kicked off with Fed Mag rifle primers in most of my earlier loading ...as I had nothing to go on but what I was reading from the U.S. .. and that was the predominant thinking at the time. Since... I've gone back to LR standard... usually a match primer ..either CCI BR2 or Fed match. Never done a paper comparison but match results dont show any marked advantage with the magnum primers. Pistol primers I've been curious to try but I'm not about to play with rims and primer pockets on brass thats harder to find than a Lepricorns gold ! Great reading and watching...keep it coming.

Gavin.

[Distant Thunder]

I had read that you could use .45-90 brass and that you couldn't use it so I thought I'd see for myself. You can certainly use it, but it's far from the best choice. It's best if you take care to get the case head centered up good because the head size is about .017" undersize on .45 brass and it will upset off center if not held center with tape or something. I had the old .45-90 from .45 basic and decided to try some.

The .300 Mag brass is a lot of work and I would not go that way again unless I had to, but if I did have to at least I could.

The BACO reformed .50-110 brass looks to be the best affordable option available today. I have 100 of those and I will be working with them soon as well as the Jamison.

I started with .45 brass and pulled Goex Express because I was just planning on getting the scope pointed toward center. That went much quicker than usual for me, luck I guess. The pistol primers were used because in both my .45-70 and my .40-65 I use Remington 2 1/2 primers and it works best in those two rifles with PPB.

I tried match primers of various types from time to time and just never saw anything that made me want to use them. Many people do so it will be on my list of things to pick up and try.

In the past, before my .45-70 Hepburn and my .40-65 and the use of pistol primer in them, I usually found Federal 215 worked well with Goex and Federal 210 worked well with Swiss. So that was my next move here.

Again remember, I'm breaking in a new barrel and fireforming a lot of brass. I am averse to using my best components for those two things, so I am in effect saving the best for last. Once all my brass has been fireformed once the barrel will be broke in and I'll have some good ideas of what this rifle likes and doesn't like.

I think tomorrow one of the loads between 76 grains and 82 grains of Goex 2f will look pretty good at 200m. Once I've found the best load I can with Goex 2f I'll likely move to Swiss 1 1/2 and basically repeat the process. I'll start with a "light" load find the primer that works good with that and then test loads moving up in two grain increments. Find what looks good there and try a grain each way from that.

Next would be retesting with different primers and the best powder charge. Then play with different wads or not. I almost always end up with .060" LDPE wads as giving the best results anyway so I may just stay there. Though in my .45-90 HDPE wads made a big difference.

When I have taken it as far as I can with the BACO 431ADJ I'll switch to the Sharps design mold I have. I do expect that to be a more accurate bullet, but we'll see. The whole process will begin again, changing one thing at a time finding what works best and retesting to be sure I have the right combination.

Then there is the whole question of seating depth, especially in this bottleneck case. I've started at .200" depth, much deeper than I usually go in most of my straight cases for target loads. That is the result of conversations with Kurt and Don and what I've seen in original cartridges.

The whole adjustable mold thing adds more variables to test. I won't take that too far. For now a 450 grain bullet has less lead in it than a 530 grain bullet, so that's why I started there. With my 17-twist I can go longer and heavier than I care too, 520 to 540 will be heavy enough!

I expect it to take a shooting season or two to fine tune the best load/bullet I can for this rifle. The final goal once I know what the rifle likes bullet wise and how deep to seat it will be to use a 2-diameter PPB (maybe more than one nose design) and that should be as good as it gets in this grease groove chamber.

As long as there are a few people interested I will post my efforts so they can see how I work to develop accurate paper patch load for my rifles. The process has changed as I've learned, I'm probably a little more organized in my approach now and I hope to keep good records.

The hard part will be to decide when to quit tweaking things and just settle on one bullet/load and go and shoot. Of course that's when the fun ends too so......

[Distant Thunder]

This morning I shot the same BACO 450 grain #431ADJ bullet over 76.0, 78.0, 80.0 and 82.0 grains of Goex 2f. Everything else was the same including the COAL at 3.310". I just had more compression as the loads went up. I shot these loads at 200m.

All were 3-shot groups. The only load that showed anything I could work with was 78.0 grains with 3 shots in a little under 4 inches and forming a nice triangle.

76.0 grs. was a 6 inch vertical string.
80.0 grs. was strung out over 12 inches vertically.
82.0 grs. was a 8 inch triangle.

I should try the 78.0 grs. again with the 450 gr. bullet. It would be nice to see it repeat. I will also try the 78.0 gr. load with the BACO #431ADJ mold set to cast at 1.425" long which weighs 520 grains. Then I will try the 530 grain Sharps style bullet at 530 grains with the same 78.0 gr. load. If nothing there looks promising I will switch to Swiss 1 1/2.

I was really hoping to do most of my fireforming with this 2f Goex because I have a good supply of it and I don't use it as much as I use to. It would be good to find at least a 2 MOA load during fireforming, I wouldn't feel like I was wasting powder as much. The 1 1/2 Swiss is my match powder and I really don't want to use that up for fireforming.

I tried a few cases with a charge of smokeless and COW for fireforming and it didn't work all that well for me. The cases did blow out some but not enough. These black powder loads blow the cases out nice.

Back to the loading bench!

[Kurt]

Jim, I use what I call junk and spilled powder I put in a gallon glass jug and shake it up to mix it for this job. surprising how good it shoots when it's all mixed. 1 to 4F