some 44-77 questions

[Nuclearcricket]

Just out of curiousity I took my 44-77 roller to a match last month to have it weighed. About 10 1/2 pounds, pretty close to what I had figured. One of the shooters was interested in the caliber and was interested in shooting it. I took it along to the match for him to play with today. Good chance that a 44 is in his future.
I do have a question about vertical dispersion. The windage held all the way to the rams but the vert was kind of all over the place. The load was brand new brass, captec, CCI BR2 primers, 74 gr CTG Goex, 480 Gr greaser, ,030 lpde wad and a wax paper wad. Bore was wiped between each shot. Most notable it would thow a couple of shots low and then a high one, enough to shoot under and then over the rams. Any suggestions on what may cause so much vert and what I can do to make it go away?
I would guess that the horizontal was less than a minute as several shots were between the rams legs.
Other than that, the load seems to shoot fairly well and it sure seemed to have a good bit of zip to it. All of the targets that were hit went down quickly. One turkey was hit in the breast and it was driven straight back off of the stand.
Thanks for the help
Sam

[Don McDowell]

That sort of vertical, I look first at fouling control, then check the position of your sticks, to high or to low will deal you fits. If neither of those fix it, then you probably need to up the powder charge, or use a a shorter bullet.

[bruce moulds]

couldn't agree more with don.
if those things don't work, then bending light could be a cause, as can changes in wind direction.
some ranges are notorious for vert due to steps and bumps causing vertical wind flow.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Nuclearcricket]

Thanks for the reply's, yea air movement could be some of the cause, the shooting was done at Ridgway PA range, definitely not flat and I have seen the wind flags do strange things. I have seen the flags on each bank of animals point in a different direction as well as seen the flags on just one bank pointing in different directions.
But I would think that if it was the wind it would effect both the vert as well as the horizontal but the horizontal seemed very consistent.
Also keep in mind that this was just shooting to get some sight settings and to fire form the brass so that may have some effect.
One funny thing was the first shot. It hit a good 6' below the chicken, but took the chicken out with the skip. From what I saw in the spotting scope, that caliber and bullet seemed to hit the animals very hard and they seemed to drop a little faster than what I an used to seeing. Normaly I watch a couple of shooters right in front of my perch as I am the guy calling the line and observe things with 10X binoculars.
Sam

[Kurt]

Sam.

At at 10.5# rifle weight it sounds like you have a # 2.5 or a #3 weight barrel that will have a little more harmonic vibration then a #4 or #5 heavy weight that will make barrel placement a little more critical on the sticks. My 10# .44-77 has a light 30" barrel and it is a little finicky with barrel placement on the sticks or I get some vertical. With mine it makes no difference where I place the barrel on the sticks as long as it is in the same spot and with the sight setting that was noted at this spot. Also a 460 gr bullet and a 485 gr I mostly use I see a difference on the amount of vertical hits with differences in the amount of vertical.
I don't see vertical that is from very low to over the top of a 500 yard target as you said but it shows that there is some with barrel placement on the sticks.
Also a 10 O-clock and 2 O-Clock wind shift makes more elevation changes then a straight on wind from what I have noticed with my .44's more so when the velocity increases between the .44-77 and the .44-90 bn.
Kurt

[Eric Johanen]

What sights are on the rifle? Light conditions on the range? What was he seeing through the sights on the target? Some days I can get a very narrow horizontal but vertical string because I'm not getting the target really centered in the aperture. It look's centered but is not and the shot will land either high or low. Same thing can happen with open iron's. Varying the amount of front sight blade in the rear notch. It look's OK but the sight picture is changing and I'm not picking up on that My eyes and light conditions will give me problems some days and then next time out will get me great nice round groups. When I notice I'm starting to run vertical I really concentrate and check that the target is not high or low in the center of the aperture or blade and notch alignment I does not take much sight error to cause either vertical or horizontal stringing. Practice and shooting under different light conditions will cut down on these problems.

[Nuclearcricket]

Sam.

At at 10.5# rifle weight it sounds like you have a # 2.5 or a #3 weight barrel that will have a little more harmonic vibration then a #4 or #5 heavy weight that will make barrel placement a little more critical on the sticks. My 10# .44-77 has a light 30" barrel and it is a little finicky with barrel placement on the sticks or I get some vertical. With mine it makes no difference where I place the barrel on the sticks as long as it is in the same spot and with the sight setting that was noted at this spot. Also a 460 gr bullet and a 485 gr I mostly use I see a difference on the amount of vertical hits with differences in the amount of vertical.
I don't see vertical that is from very low to over the top of a 500 yard target as you said but it shows that there is some with barrel placement on the sticks.
Also a 10 O-clock and 2 O-Clock wind shift makes more elevation changes then a straight on wind from what I have noticed with my .44's more so when the velocity increases between the .44-77 and the .44-90 bn.
Kurt

The barrel was ordered as a 3 1/2 weight from Green Mountain and its screwed into a pedrosoli rolling block action. It look nice and feels nice. I will keep in mind stick placement in the future. A wrap of tape will keep things going back to the same place.
The load was just bringing the powder up to where the base of the bullet would be and the compression was just the thickness of the wad. But all in all, it did show that there is good potiental for the rifle to shoot well. Next time out I will throw some Swiss in it and see what happens along with an under powder/over primer wad.
Some of my early shooting did not go all that well. When your second or third shot draws blood, that just kind of takes all the fun out of things.
Down side is here in the north east, the weather is starting to turn more seasional, as in cold and wet so time to clean things up and pack them away for the winter and work on having a good supply of goodies ready for the spring.
Sam

[Don McDowell]

In my adventures with the 44-77, I have found no powder to date that works as well in accuracy as the Cartridge did, altho KIK 1 1/2 comes very close, and OE 1 1/2 or 2 f are extremely close to the accuracy with more velocity and way less fouling. My first 44 also told me that if I ever shot Swiss or Schuetzen in it again, it was going to lay down and die...never tried it in the second rifle.
The nice thing about your Green Mountain barrel, it should handle up to 500 gr bullets and do so to 1000 yds.

[Nuclearcricket]

LOL @ Don, on the Swiss. I have shot some Swiss in it as well as some Elephant, Yea I still have some of that stuff setting here. That was used to just blow out the cases and get a feel for the rifle.
On the GM barrel, one thing that impressed me and the guy doing the shooting yesterday was the smoothness of the barrel. The fowling pushed out easily and there was very little leading. It did get a bit warm as we ram 40 rounds through it and never really gave it a chance to cool off.
Just judging from the way the steel animals fell, on the killing fields that caliber would be deadly. He hit one ram and it was high and just to the rear of the shoulder, it went right down. The turkey I saw get his was driven straight back with a hit a little to the breast side of center and centered vertically. It was driven straight back off of its perch. Had it left any faster I would have not seen the strike at all.
All in all I am impressed, just need to find the sweet spot that really makes it perk and all will be good.
Sam

[Don McDowell]

Sam, part of your vertical could of come from the barrel heating.
I once rang a ram with a 40-65, a low hit just above the pecker. After I went thru the rest of the bank, I came back on that ram with the 44-77, and when that 460 gr original sharps nosed patched bullet hit him in about the same place, he no longer stood there on the rail laughing.. LOL