Bertram Brass

[ken s]

I shoot a 40 70 Sharps 74 original. I've been using Jamison Brass and no problems. NOW> I can't get any more...B Arms, and the Captech site are out.
B Arms has 40 70 BERTRAM BRASS and I bought 20 for $60.
high $$! but any port in a storm.....

first...how does Bertram compare to Jamison?..
second. anyone know where I can get some 40 70 for the original chamber Sharps. B Arms had it but not now. bore is .403 just for record.

Thanks...Ken

   

[bruce moulds]

ken,
just for record also, the rifle is NOT original if it is the one discussed originally.
you must stop referring to it as original.
in its current condition it is probably worthy of Bertram brass.
keep safe,
bruce.

[ken s]

ken,
just for record also, the rifle is NOT original if it is the one discussed originally.
you must stop referring to it as original.
in its current condition it is probably worthy of Bertram brass.
keep safe,
bruce.

Thanks Bruce, but the question is about the quality of Bertram vs. Jamison.
I can cancel the order and wait for Jamison if it is worth it...
Ken
(The chamber sleeve was cut with an R and D custom chamber cutter in the
Original chamber size. so the question remains)

[Gunlaker]

In my experience Bertram is hit and miss. When I bought my first .45-110 I picked up a few boxes of Bertram brass. The first two boxes were fine. I later picked up a third box at a gun show and lost several cases on the first firing due to splits close to the case head.

That was the last Bertram brass I'll ever buy.

Chris.

[bruce moulds]

ken,
just because r & d, or anyone else for that matter, made the reamer, does not mean the chamber is to original dimensions.
no original chamber I have seen would allow finger seating of a 410 bullet in a fired case, and you could not chamber a round with a 410 bullet loaded.
if don, zack or orville , correct me on this I will have to eat my words.
the cartridge was an almost generic one in the day, commonly used by many companies for mid range target and hunting rifles.
it was known for reliable accuracy and was a basic workhorse chambering.
it came from the bore diameter pp era, and was supplanted by greaser groove diameter chamberings like the 40/65 later in the era.
you just can't have it both ways.
even if your new chamber is to original dimensions, the rifle is still not original.
a piece of history has gone forever.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Kurt]

I bought 60 cases of the .40-70 Bertram brass 17 years ago when I got my .40-70 Shiloh and they split the length of the case after three reloads. I still have some in the junk brass box. The brass is very brittle like they might be made from yellow brass.

[ken s]

I bought 60 cases of the .40-70 Bertram brass 17 years ago when I got my .40-70 Shiloh and they split the length of the case after three reloads. I still have some in the junk brass box. The brass is very brittle like they might be made from yellow brass.

Thank you Kurt. this is the information I wanted. I've cancelled the order and will try some of the 40 70s that B Arms has. I've ordered 10 to see if I can size and trim the rim (if necessary) .
B Arms (great Guys that give an honest answer) said that when Jamison brass becomes available again, they will stock ONLY the 40 65 with the larger rim. SO. I'll have to see if I can have them fit. I'll get more if I can make this work..
Ken

[ken s]

ken,
just because r & d, or anyone else for that matter, made the reamer, does not mean the chamber is to original dimensions.
no original chamber I have seen would allow finger seating of a 410 bullet in a fired case, and you could not chamber a round with a 410 bullet loaded.
if don, zack or orville , correct me on this I will have to eat my words.
the cartridge was an almost generic one in the day, commonly used by many companies for mid range target and hunting rifles.
it was known for reliable accuracy and was a basic workhorse chambering.
it came from the bore diameter pp era, and was supplanted by greaser groove diameter chamberings like the 40/65 later in the era.
you just can't have it both ways.
even if your new chamber is to original dimensions, the rifle is still not original.
a piece of history has gone forever.
keep safe,
bruce.

[ken s]

Hi Bruce.
Here is the full story on the 74's chamber.
It is factory lettered as a 40 70, and is so marked. When I bought it , 30 years ago, it had been rechambered by S H and G to 40 90 SBN (It is listed in the book Arming the West by serial number.
BUT, while that is historically correct, the chamber was not right and split cases. I had a choice....leave a $6000 gun on the wall, or do a
and here it comes....RESTORATION....
It is right and proper to do a restoration, So I had it rechambered, not the bore, that is very clean and untouched, but to the original case size.
It cost a boatload, (that is an actual amount) to do it properly and it took 7 months while the gunsmith worked with R and D for the correct size cutter.
He is located on Cape Cod and has a 50 year history and dozens of articles written about him, including some Smithsonian work, he's that good.
While I'm trying to get it to shoot as well as can be, I know it will never be a tackdriver.
I am also a past Antique Gunsmith, but don't do it anymore. Through my 20 years of working on guns,including some from the RI Historical Society, I had one rule, and ONLY ONE rule. NEVER REPLACE...ALWAYS REPAIR/RESTORE. So we are in full agreement about the history aspect.
Turnbull does a nice job at this too, and I'm sure none of his restorations decrease in value from the original.
Too bad we're not close, I'd love to have this conversation over a beer or two...MY Treat! Ken

[bruce moulds]

hi ken,
yes meeting would be good.
it would have to be over coffee though. I have already drank my share of beer for life.
keep safe,
bruce.