My findings with the paper patched bullet

[Kurt]

There seems to be increasing interest in shooting the paper jacketed bullets. I'm going to start this and I hope others will join in and add to what I have found.

Patching the bullet is not much of a problem, but making them shoot with consistent accuracy during a long string of a days match shooting where you will shoot 30 to 45 shots for record plus the sighter shots can start to strain the accuracy of the loads you have worked so hard for getting a MOA developing it and seeing it starting to throw up dirt where it should not have hit.
There is a great difference the way I patch my bullets for hunting and what I use for match as well as just for a day at the range busting pins or random clay birds laying on the berm.
For hunting I will patch the bullet where I can make several shots with out controlling the fouling. I want that round to chamber with out having to use a tool or a blow tube for a fast follow up shot if I need it. Lube alone will not do it. I don't care even if that lube wad is 1/4 or 3/8" thick, it will not do it using a bullet patched like one used for the matches.
I use a bullet that will be small enough that it will chamber with several shots fired in a fouled bore. This takes a little work working out the alloy that must be a little softer so it will expand to fill the grooves and get the proper rotation to shoot accurately after several shots fired. This also needs finding how far up on the ogive to hold the patch because using the softer alloy it also sets back the nose as the bullet expands filling the grooves and this exposes dry lead to the fouled bore destroying the accuracy. This is where you want to use thicker paper where a double wrapped patch is thicker then the groove is deep because the patch has a tendency to wear from the rough fouled bore and it exposes the dry lead to build up. This gets to be more of a problem using a round nosed bullet like the government more then a ogive like the postell. This is where a dual diameter or tapered bullet shines. They allow for the expandin ogive when the charge goes off.

Patching for the matches. This is where a lot of shooters get discouraged with the PP bullets.
When they first start patching they go to the range with a hand full of rounds and see some good groups and think hey this is alright, these are shooting quite well. But after shooting several rounds and the accuracy drops off even to the point that they get dirt diggers. This is caused by several things going on.
Paper rings is one of the biggest problem. And this is not just for the PP but also for the GG.
With a now standard 45 degree chamber end and it does not matter if the case mouth is right at the chamber end it will cut the patch or lead with a GG. It just takes a few more shots to build up enough rings if they don't move out with the next bullet fired or wiping helps this greatly. When you use a blow tube these rings will have a greater chance to stay behind wedged to the 45 degree chamber end. You will find them if you spend time looking for them. When the bullet upsets and fills the void between the case mouth and the throat it will start smearing the lead forward into the bore.
A patch to thin, thinner then the groove is deep will start lead build up on the sharp, or round, land leading edges and after a few shots it will be enough that it effects the accuracy.
A patch not far enough past the shank will expose lead to the bore if the alloy temper is not hard enough to keep the radius of the ogive off the bore. I spend a lot of time during the winters working this out getting the right alloy temper with the unpatched bullet diameter to get the proper placement of the patch placement ahead of the bullet shank so when the charge goes off dry lead don't come in contact with the bore. I see no difference with accuracy if the patch is a few thousands short of the ogive as well as to far forward of the shank but I do see a problem starting if it is to far back after several shots fired, even wiping the bore between shots. And the patches when cleaning the rifle will be gray from the smeared on lead that is still in the bore.

This is getting to be a book so I will stop here. I know that there will be disagreements from what I said but it is what I find.
I will like to hear what y'all do and find.

Kurt

[Don McDowell]

I am fast becoming a bigger fan of the dual diameter bullets everytime I take them out for some shooting.
First off you can go with a larger diameter base than you would with a straight sided or tapered bullet. The smaller nose helps with being able to chamber "dirty". I've also found that patching about half way up that nose is plenty sufficient as the bullet seldom expands past the paper, especially when using 20-1 and harder alloy.
Those things are a pain in the butt to wrap.
I do think folks with the saami spec chambers may find those bullets to cure a lot of ills and shoot quite well.
Wiping routine with target loads can screw up a good load, if not done properly, and that includes leaving a trace of "lube" in the bore, and that's where I've found the water soluble oil and water mix to come in so handy.
I just shot two days with the dual diameter bullet, around 50 rounds per day. When I cleaned up Monday after we got home it took 3 patches. I blow tube that between shots, and wipe the bore between relays.

[Kurt]

I'm not quite convinced about the dual diameter bullets yet for match shooting. I have a couple moulds and a swage die for the dual diameter plus the bullets you gave me to try and at this point I have not been able to get them to shoot as well as the straight shanked bullets with the long elliptical ogives.
This morning I put the scope on my new CPA and I took the loads I had loaded for Lodi to get sight settings and empty out the cases. I shot up 80 rounds of the .44-75 Ballard rounds and I must say they shot even better then when I used the tang sights . I had enough of the old OE powder (37 rounds) I figured I could use for one day's shooting at Lodi using the 507 gr KAL patched elliptical before going to an untested load of KIK. When I finally found the paper with the KIK loads I switched to the old lot of OE the 37 rounds where loaded with and shot ten rounds and they all cut in a 2" orange sticker I used for the target at 200. That calmed my concerns that the rifle accuracy died. The rest of the loads I had loaded with the left over KIK did pretty good also. They stayed under 2 MOA and they would have stayed on the 1K paper if the wind calls were good.

Don try that Stevens action shooting dirty. Before I put the rifle away I took the PP rounds that where patched a thousand over bore diameter and just loaded and shot to see just how many I could chamber. I shot 13 rounds with out any fouling control and never had a problem closing the breach and they stayed under 5-1/2" @ 200. only the last 4 shots fired expanded the group to 5 1/2"

[Don McDowell]

Haven't found a patched load that Stevens is really fond of. Had one that worked at 8 but fell apart at 1000.. need to spend some more time with it, but I do have that hiwall coming with the patched chamber, so probably just leave the CPA as a grease gun.

[Kurt]

Try some of those prolates I gave you in the CPA.

[Don McDowell]

I think I'll just leave the CPA as a greasegun. With the higwall I don't think the chamber will accept a greaser, altho it might, but the main focus for that rifle will be patched, and if it don't shoot patched, we'll open the chamber a tad and make it a grease gun too.
I would like to get a good patched load for the 44-90 st, and I think I'll revist the dual diameter sharps bullet, only let it out to about 1.4 to accomidate the faster twist. I like the way that bullet flattens those rams, and just spins the pigs in the 77 , so surely I can make it work in the 90.

[Kurt]

Well did you ever shoot those KAL Elliptical bullets I gave you for the .44-90. If I remember it has a 16.5 twist. Those elliptical will shoot about as well as anything. They sure do in my 16 and 17 twist rifles.

[Don McDowell]

No, I haven't shot those bullets. I actually other than the one match at Smithmoor, and then Byers , and now the Utah state match haven't shot any of my rifles since June. On that dual diameter bullet, 7 turkeys and 7 pigs makes it pretty hard to arque it doesn't have any accuracy.

[Mike]

    Kurt and Don, I'm following this threat with great interest mainly because I also like paper patched bullets, sometimes even in .44 caliber... Kurt, I see you both mentioned the dual diameter bullets but what is your opinion or "take" on tapered bullets? Let me add that I tend to like them but my focus on them is more for sporting use than for competition, meaning that "minute of moose" accuracy should do rather well. The tapered bullets seem to do well for repeated shots without wiping the bore, something worthy of consideration for a hunting load. Another reason I tend to appreciate the tapered bullets is their authenticity, at least I believe the old Sharps paper patch loads used tapered bullets. Yesterday I shot five rounds through my short barreled .50/70 using Accurate Molds' #50-470T over 70 grains of OE 1 1/2F. Those five shots were fired only with a blow tube used between rounds. My target was only 50 yards away and the .50/70 gave me my best group of the day. That's enough to make me wish one of those shots had made meat. Anyway, if you have experiences with tapered bullets, good or bad, I'd like to hear them. Shoot sharp, Mike

[Kurt]

Mike.

I have a couple tapered bullet moulds. One I had Tom Ballard make and the other is a tapered Gibbs by KAL.
The Tom Ballard bullet is a fine shooter but it is a better long range bullet then a hunting bullet because of the long slender ogive. The base is groove diameter when patched and it tapers down enough that you can shoot dirty as much as you want and still get good engraving of the lands. The tapered bullets are not favored by some. I think it is a descent shooter.
I cant comment much on the dual diameter I only shot 50 with the .44-77 and all were with Ladder test loads and I really never found a good load using them.
I have a swage die for the .50 that is a straight shanked stepped bullet that is a fine shooter, but I have shot it more then the .44.