http://historicshooting.com/ Sun, 14 Jun 2026 03:20:06 +0000 MyBB http://historicshooting.com/thread-3388.html Sat, 06 Jul 2024 20:53:40 -0500 Kurt]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3388.html

It's been very quiet on this site since Jim left us so I will post some of my why does or does not work.
There are a lot of primer mentioned and mostly Br2 and pistol primers for black powder and the LR Mag primers have lost favor over the last 20-25 years.
Since last fall I been locked in here at home because of the sawbones have their claws in me so to settle my curiosity I did a bunch of 5 shot ladder loads of all the primer brands I have on hand from zero compression to max and the best group for each brand of primers I loaded 10 rounds and shot again to find the best group.

Yes I sent a lot of lead down range but it served several things for me
The primers tested:
Fed LP 150,
Fed GM150M LP,
Fed GM210M,
Rem 2-1/2 LP,
CCI 200 LR,
Wolf Performance LP,
Winchester LR, Fed 215 LR Mag,
Lellier&Bellot LR.
I used the .38-50 Hep and I only shot 135 yard range here at home on and off to get the best sight picture and condition free errors and I used the same powder and bullets the only difference was the powder loads that shot the best ladder loads with the primer used. The interesting thing they all shot very close except the Winchester LR primer loads and the L&B. Even the Fed 215 Mag primer did not go over 2-3/4"
Out of all those different primers the best was the Wolf LR and the Fed GM 210GM.

Kurt]]>

It's been very quiet on this site since Jim left us so I will post some of my why does or does not work.
There are a lot of primer mentioned and mostly Br2 and pistol primers for black powder and the LR Mag primers have lost favor over the last 20-25 years.
Since last fall I been locked in here at home because of the sawbones have their claws in me so to settle my curiosity I did a bunch of 5 shot ladder loads of all the primer brands I have on hand from zero compression to max and the best group for each brand of primers I loaded 10 rounds and shot again to find the best group.

Yes I sent a lot of lead down range but it served several things for me
The primers tested:
Fed LP 150,
Fed GM150M LP,
Fed GM210M,
Rem 2-1/2 LP,
CCI 200 LR,
Wolf Performance LP,
Winchester LR, Fed 215 LR Mag,
Lellier&Bellot LR.
I used the .38-50 Hep and I only shot 135 yard range here at home on and off to get the best sight picture and condition free errors and I used the same powder and bullets the only difference was the powder loads that shot the best ladder loads with the primer used. The interesting thing they all shot very close except the Winchester LR primer loads and the L&B. Even the Fed 215 Mag primer did not go over 2-3/4"
Out of all those different primers the best was the Wolf LR and the Fed GM 210GM.

Kurt]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3377.html Fri, 29 Mar 2024 21:49:46 -0500 Kurt]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3377.html It's been quiet here so I thought I would make some noise

The good eye Doc. got me through the first stage fixing the Cataracts and the healing time is over for this and he gave me the go ahead to get me back to doing what I want. He did a good job but I have another part coming up in August fixing the retina but I can see pretty good now again.

Lodi is coming up in a short month so I figured I better find a load for the .38-50 I will use for the long range match for the new I case of 2F Swiss from BA and got it the other day so I loaded some 3 round ladder loads from zero compression to a full case.
I use 15 Winchester cases and 15 converted .30-40. The Winchester cases hold 5 grains more than the Converted .30-40 Jamison cases. The Win cases went from 65 gr max compression down to 61 no compression and the Jamison went from 60 gr max to 56 gr. no compression
I havent worked much with 2F Swiss for the Hepburn and on the first three shots starting this test after shooting 6 foulers warming the barrel up and when I looked through the scope I about slid off the bench when I saw the 3 shot 3/8" cloverleaf. I never shot one this tight that I remember at 200, well 185 yards the pit was closed down for spring repair. I think it had me worked up that the second group I blew one way out fat fingering the rifle before I had the buttplate in the shoulder pocket LOL.
But all in all I must say that this Hepburn no matter what the load using the 359 gr DD PP bullet it pretty much shoots all without a complaint.
I loaded another 50 rounds using the tightest groups I shot today.

Today I had 15 +- mph 12 o-clock head winds that may have some effects but I think this lot of powder will work just fine. But the real test will be at Lodi at 800 to the 1000. But I want to see if this little .38-50 will hold its own good or bad.
The Bullet alloy I used was 18 lbs lead one roll of 95/5 no lead/tin/antimony patched with 100% cotton Southworth cockle finish paper .0018" thick and a Fed 210 GM primer.
I used a single .06" Napa fiber wad.
Kurt

  IMG_1552.jpeg (Size: 303.88 KB / Downloads: 4)

  IMG_1553.jpeg (Size: 292.4 KB / Downloads: 3) ]]> It's been quiet here so I thought I would make some noise

The good eye Doc. got me through the first stage fixing the Cataracts and the healing time is over for this and he gave me the go ahead to get me back to doing what I want. He did a good job but I have another part coming up in August fixing the retina but I can see pretty good now again.

Lodi is coming up in a short month so I figured I better find a load for the .38-50 I will use for the long range match for the new I case of 2F Swiss from BA and got it the other day so I loaded some 3 round ladder loads from zero compression to a full case.
I use 15 Winchester cases and 15 converted .30-40. The Winchester cases hold 5 grains more than the Converted .30-40 Jamison cases. The Win cases went from 65 gr max compression down to 61 no compression and the Jamison went from 60 gr max to 56 gr. no compression
I havent worked much with 2F Swiss for the Hepburn and on the first three shots starting this test after shooting 6 foulers warming the barrel up and when I looked through the scope I about slid off the bench when I saw the 3 shot 3/8" cloverleaf. I never shot one this tight that I remember at 200, well 185 yards the pit was closed down for spring repair. I think it had me worked up that the second group I blew one way out fat fingering the rifle before I had the buttplate in the shoulder pocket LOL.
But all in all I must say that this Hepburn no matter what the load using the 359 gr DD PP bullet it pretty much shoots all without a complaint.
I loaded another 50 rounds using the tightest groups I shot today.

Today I had 15 +- mph 12 o-clock head winds that may have some effects but I think this lot of powder will work just fine. But the real test will be at Lodi at 800 to the 1000. But I want to see if this little .38-50 will hold its own good or bad.
The Bullet alloy I used was 18 lbs lead one roll of 95/5 no lead/tin/antimony patched with 100% cotton Southworth cockle finish paper .0018" thick and a Fed 210 GM primer.
I used a single .06" Napa fiber wad.
Kurt

  IMG_1552.jpeg (Size: 303.88 KB / Downloads: 4)

  IMG_1553.jpeg (Size: 292.4 KB / Downloads: 3) ]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3371.html Fri, 05 Jan 2024 15:44:03 -0600 Steveu]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3371.html
Is there a vendor out there that makes a neck sizing die that uses bushings for a .40 cal? I have looked, but the major mfg's seem to stop at .35 cal. I have looked at a regular neck die, but they have a diameter of .425" and I was wanting to go from .428 -.430".

Cheers,
Steve]]>
Is there a vendor out there that makes a neck sizing die that uses bushings for a .40 cal? I have looked, but the major mfg's seem to stop at .35 cal. I have looked at a regular neck die, but they have a diameter of .425" and I was wanting to go from .428 -.430".

Cheers,
Steve]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3344.html Wed, 24 May 2023 10:26:59 -0500 TexasMac]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3344.html https://www.gunbroker.com/item/988725086) has a badly pitted bore. I very recently purchased the rifle, then returned it the next day. Upon initial inspection it was obvious the bore was badly rusted to about 8” in front of the chamber with some spotty rust further forward. I should have returned it immediately but spent a couple of hours cleaning the bore with Rem. 40X & JB Paste. At first, there was so much rust it resisted inserting a cleaning patch into the bore. After cleaning the bore & checking it with a borescope I returned the rifle due to the resulting pitting. After the rust was removed the pitting cannot be seen with the naked eye but is very obvious when viewed with a borescope. I informed the seller about the rust & pitting. He subsequently relisted the rifle & indicated it was professionally cleaned by me & the bore is fine. I feel sorry for the person that ends up buying it, figuring he/she is getting a good deal. I will guarantee, due to the significant pitting, any accuracy will fall off quickly due to bore leading & increased fouling.

Wayne]]> https://www.gunbroker.com/item/988725086) has a badly pitted bore. I very recently purchased the rifle, then returned it the next day. Upon initial inspection it was obvious the bore was badly rusted to about 8” in front of the chamber with some spotty rust further forward. I should have returned it immediately but spent a couple of hours cleaning the bore with Rem. 40X & JB Paste. At first, there was so much rust it resisted inserting a cleaning patch into the bore. After cleaning the bore & checking it with a borescope I returned the rifle due to the resulting pitting. After the rust was removed the pitting cannot be seen with the naked eye but is very obvious when viewed with a borescope. I informed the seller about the rust & pitting. He subsequently relisted the rifle & indicated it was professionally cleaned by me & the bore is fine. I feel sorry for the person that ends up buying it, figuring he/she is getting a good deal. I will guarantee, due to the significant pitting, any accuracy will fall off quickly due to bore leading & increased fouling.

Wayne]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3305.html Mon, 10 Oct 2022 18:14:46 -0500 JKR]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3305.html With a 530 grain patched bullet and 83 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 the average velocity was 1328.
With the same weight GG bullet and 67 grains it was 1226.
Extreme spread for 10 shots was 13 and 11 FPS respectively.
The LabRadar is a pretty cool tool.
JKR]]> With a 530 grain patched bullet and 83 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 the average velocity was 1328.
With the same weight GG bullet and 67 grains it was 1226.
Extreme spread for 10 shots was 13 and 11 FPS respectively.
The LabRadar is a pretty cool tool.
JKR]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3304.html Wed, 05 Oct 2022 07:37:16 -0500 JKR]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3304.html I made a compression die to compress 35 grains of Swiss 1/2 onto which I set a 215 grain bullet directly on top.
I’ve been wondering if original cartridges used any kind of a wad between bullet and powder. Has anyone pulled down an original BP factory load?
My loading method has given outstanding accuracy but can the powder eventually be degraded by lube from the bullet?
JKR]]> I made a compression die to compress 35 grains of Swiss 1/2 onto which I set a 215 grain bullet directly on top.
I’ve been wondering if original cartridges used any kind of a wad between bullet and powder. Has anyone pulled down an original BP factory load?
My loading method has given outstanding accuracy but can the powder eventually be degraded by lube from the bullet?
JKR]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3242.html Mon, 18 Apr 2022 09:42:50 -0500 JKR]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3242.html Anyone out there know where I can get ahold of any of the longer length Starline?
I’ve found the 38-55 to be a fun rifle for the informal gong shoots in the area. My 50 rounds isn’t quite enough to get through a match.
Jim]]> Anyone out there know where I can get ahold of any of the longer length Starline?
I’ve found the 38-55 to be a fun rifle for the informal gong shoots in the area. My 50 rounds isn’t quite enough to get through a match.
Jim]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3233.html Thu, 31 Mar 2022 09:34:57 -0500 Distant Thunder]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3233.html
Let's say you had two bullets, one that had B.C. of .380 and another bullet had a B.C. of .480. Bullet A and bullet B respectively. Bullet A with it's comparatively low B.C. will hold 1 to1 1/2 MOA at 800, 900 and 1000. Bullet B with it's higher B.C. will hold 2 to 2 1/2 MOA at those ranges.

Which bullet, A or B, would you choose?

I think we can all agree that accuracy is important. We can also agree that a higher B.C. is an advantage. Do you think a higher B.C. will overcome the less accuracy of bullet B? And vice versa, would the better accuracy of bullet A be enough to overcome its lower B.C.?

As an example of the differences in B.C. I'll use these two bullets, on the left is bullet A and on the right is bullet B. I'm using this picture because the difference in B.C. between the two is very evident. When in fact, these two bullets are equal in accuracy at 1000 yards in two tests during actual matches and shooting them at 1000 yards.

  2 45 cal PPB.jpg (Size: 102.08 KB / Downloads: 22) ]]>
Let's say you had two bullets, one that had B.C. of .380 and another bullet had a B.C. of .480. Bullet A and bullet B respectively. Bullet A with it's comparatively low B.C. will hold 1 to1 1/2 MOA at 800, 900 and 1000. Bullet B with it's higher B.C. will hold 2 to 2 1/2 MOA at those ranges.

Which bullet, A or B, would you choose?

I think we can all agree that accuracy is important. We can also agree that a higher B.C. is an advantage. Do you think a higher B.C. will overcome the less accuracy of bullet B? And vice versa, would the better accuracy of bullet A be enough to overcome its lower B.C.?

As an example of the differences in B.C. I'll use these two bullets, on the left is bullet A and on the right is bullet B. I'm using this picture because the difference in B.C. between the two is very evident. When in fact, these two bullets are equal in accuracy at 1000 yards in two tests during actual matches and shooting them at 1000 yards.

  2 45 cal PPB.jpg (Size: 102.08 KB / Downloads: 22) ]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3228.html Wed, 02 Mar 2022 17:50:10 -0600 TexasMac]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3228.html https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/nra/20...d/1059323/

Wayne]]> https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/nra/20...d/1059323/

Wayne]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3225.html Sun, 20 Feb 2022 15:34:07 -0600 Distant Thunder]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3225.html
I’m betting the answer is, NO! So then comes my real question, why not?

I believe Shiloh greatly handicaps these two cartridges by offering only 19-twist barrels, though they will put other brands of barrels on their rifles as they did for me with my 17-twsit Krieger barreled .44-77.

Shiloh makes some very fine rifles, the best of the 1874s which is the model I am familiar with. There are many other actions that can be and are barreled in faster twist .44-77 BN and .44-90 BN cartridges.

I’ve been working with my .44-77 for a season and a half, both of those summers were cut short first by Covid then by personal business. The cartridge was a bit more involved to get into mostly because of brass, but very excellent brass can be had from Buffalo Arms. The brass does make it a little more expensive to get set up, but one does not take up BPTR if the idea is to get by with little expense. Once you have the brass it lasts a long time. I don’t size any of the black powder cases once they’re fireformed and I used a Lee .43 Mauser size die to prep the case for fireforming my .44-77. After that it’s just a compression die and a neck sizing die for my bore diameter paper patch bullets and they’re ready to shoot.

As for accuracy, in my experience the accuracy has been good to very good, but I haven’t yet had that show up in a match and I’m not sure why that is.

I really like this old Shiloh I had Kirk rebarrel for me and I really like the .44-77 cartridge. I will continue to shoot it in matches where the outcome is not critical to me, and I can relax and just work with the rifle and cartridge as I try to achieve match winning accuracy with it.

My .44-77 is the rifle I take out of the safe whenever I want to shoot just for the fun of shooting a BPCR and accuracy to 600 yards has been very good. I have not yet shot an entire two-day Creedmoor match with this rifle for various reasons. So I don’t yet know what it’s capable of at 1000 yards. I might be dreaming thinking winning a Creedmoor match is even possible with this cartridge, I don’t know.

That is what has brought the question I asked in the beginning of this post to mind. Can the .44-2 ¼” win a long-range match? It apparently did well in the 1870s in the 1 in 20-twist of the original Sharps rifles. I believe Remington use a 1 in 18 twist for their .44s. The 20-twist barrels would have only stabilized a bullet a little over 1.300” long and about 480 grains if it can get 1400 fps with 90 grains of powder. The .44-2 5/8 would have no trouble getting over 1400 fps with 100 grains of powder and would handle a bullet a little longer and heavier.

So just looking at the numbers it sure looks like they are up to winning. So, who has proven this to be the case? Nobody I have heard of, yet!

  Brooks bullet loaded.jpg (Size: 59.26 KB / Downloads: 5) ]]>
I’m betting the answer is, NO! So then comes my real question, why not?

I believe Shiloh greatly handicaps these two cartridges by offering only 19-twist barrels, though they will put other brands of barrels on their rifles as they did for me with my 17-twsit Krieger barreled .44-77.

Shiloh makes some very fine rifles, the best of the 1874s which is the model I am familiar with. There are many other actions that can be and are barreled in faster twist .44-77 BN and .44-90 BN cartridges.

I’ve been working with my .44-77 for a season and a half, both of those summers were cut short first by Covid then by personal business. The cartridge was a bit more involved to get into mostly because of brass, but very excellent brass can be had from Buffalo Arms. The brass does make it a little more expensive to get set up, but one does not take up BPTR if the idea is to get by with little expense. Once you have the brass it lasts a long time. I don’t size any of the black powder cases once they’re fireformed and I used a Lee .43 Mauser size die to prep the case for fireforming my .44-77. After that it’s just a compression die and a neck sizing die for my bore diameter paper patch bullets and they’re ready to shoot.

As for accuracy, in my experience the accuracy has been good to very good, but I haven’t yet had that show up in a match and I’m not sure why that is.

I really like this old Shiloh I had Kirk rebarrel for me and I really like the .44-77 cartridge. I will continue to shoot it in matches where the outcome is not critical to me, and I can relax and just work with the rifle and cartridge as I try to achieve match winning accuracy with it.

My .44-77 is the rifle I take out of the safe whenever I want to shoot just for the fun of shooting a BPCR and accuracy to 600 yards has been very good. I have not yet shot an entire two-day Creedmoor match with this rifle for various reasons. So I don’t yet know what it’s capable of at 1000 yards. I might be dreaming thinking winning a Creedmoor match is even possible with this cartridge, I don’t know.

That is what has brought the question I asked in the beginning of this post to mind. Can the .44-2 ¼” win a long-range match? It apparently did well in the 1870s in the 1 in 20-twist of the original Sharps rifles. I believe Remington use a 1 in 18 twist for their .44s. The 20-twist barrels would have only stabilized a bullet a little over 1.300” long and about 480 grains if it can get 1400 fps with 90 grains of powder. The .44-2 5/8 would have no trouble getting over 1400 fps with 100 grains of powder and would handle a bullet a little longer and heavier.

So just looking at the numbers it sure looks like they are up to winning. So, who has proven this to be the case? Nobody I have heard of, yet!

  Brooks bullet loaded.jpg (Size: 59.26 KB / Downloads: 5) ]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3215.html Fri, 21 Jan 2022 11:17:32 -0600 Kurt]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3215.html Have any of you used this ball cleaning media?
I haven't tried any of it yet but I think it should do a fine job.

  4mm media.jpeg (Size: 74.8 KB / Downloads: 5) ]]> Have any of you used this ball cleaning media?
I haven't tried any of it yet but I think it should do a fine job.

  4mm media.jpeg (Size: 74.8 KB / Downloads: 5) ]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3212.html Sat, 08 Jan 2022 08:04:12 -0600 JKR]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3212.html I’m wondering if I need to cut back on my shooting.
JKR]]> I’m wondering if I need to cut back on my shooting.
JKR]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3211.html Fri, 07 Jan 2022 11:35:19 -0600 Don McDowell]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3211.html Guess we wait and see what comes next.]]> Guess we wait and see what comes next.]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3200.html Sat, 27 Nov 2021 08:54:40 -0600 Steveu]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3200.html
Cheers,
Steve]]>
Cheers,
Steve]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3184.html Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:59:27 -0500 TexasMac]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3184.html https://namlhunt.com/goex-to-close.html?...0z--4Xxbwg

Wayne]]> https://namlhunt.com/goex-to-close.html?...0z--4Xxbwg

Wayne]]>