http://historicshooting.com/ Fri, 19 Jun 2026 06:16:47 +0000 MyBB http://historicshooting.com/thread-3403.html Tue, 15 Oct 2024 22:02:08 -0500 Kurt]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3403.html

I junked the barrel of the new problem child CPA .38-50 that just did not want to make me happy so I ordered a GM .375 honed and air gauged barrel and got it mounted.

I formed new brass for it with a different head stamp because this chamber I had Manson make another reamer that is different than what the .38-50 Hepburn has so I don't have to worry about getting the brass mixed.
Well After getting the .30-40 Krag necks blown out and and fired the second time and trimming it long for the third firing so they dont come out too short when they match the chamber with the third forming proses.
I set up the target at 200 and shot. When I went down to get the target and seen a shotgun pattern on the paper I wish I would have left the other barrel on The loads were just old powders 1.5, 2 and 3F mixed and odd and end left over bullets not using my good OE and Swiss powder and match primers for the forming stage.
Well I cleaned the brass, resized the cases and annealed them again and got out the good primers and powder and loaded some that worked good in the Hepburn and shot two groups again and they put a smile on my face when I saw them. I think this rifle will now shoot I hope as well as the Hep does.
I sure like these little .38-50's

Kurt

  IMG_1783.jpeg (Size: 480.56 KB / Downloads: 6)

  IMG_1788 2.jpeg (Size: 489.9 KB / Downloads: 7) ]]>

I junked the barrel of the new problem child CPA .38-50 that just did not want to make me happy so I ordered a GM .375 honed and air gauged barrel and got it mounted.

I formed new brass for it with a different head stamp because this chamber I had Manson make another reamer that is different than what the .38-50 Hepburn has so I don't have to worry about getting the brass mixed.
Well After getting the .30-40 Krag necks blown out and and fired the second time and trimming it long for the third firing so they dont come out too short when they match the chamber with the third forming proses.
I set up the target at 200 and shot. When I went down to get the target and seen a shotgun pattern on the paper I wish I would have left the other barrel on The loads were just old powders 1.5, 2 and 3F mixed and odd and end left over bullets not using my good OE and Swiss powder and match primers for the forming stage.
Well I cleaned the brass, resized the cases and annealed them again and got out the good primers and powder and loaded some that worked good in the Hepburn and shot two groups again and they put a smile on my face when I saw them. I think this rifle will now shoot I hope as well as the Hep does.
I sure like these little .38-50's

Kurt

  IMG_1783.jpeg (Size: 480.56 KB / Downloads: 6)

  IMG_1788 2.jpeg (Size: 489.9 KB / Downloads: 7) ]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3401.html Tue, 01 Oct 2024 17:33:21 -0500 JKR]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3401.html I have a 34” 45-90 barrel from a Miroku/Winchester BPCR.
JKR]]> I have a 34” 45-90 barrel from a Miroku/Winchester BPCR.
JKR]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3345.html Mon, 29 May 2023 19:48:03 -0500 Kurt]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3345.html I got the DZ .38-50 #3 Hepburn about as good as I can shoot it so now it's time for the CPA .38-50
For this rifle I got enough .30-40 Krag shells from Graf last winter when it was still in stock so I keep the Winchester Head stamp for the Hepburn and these BCC case head stamp for the CPA so I wont get them mixed. I have 500 Winchester cases for the Hep and I just blew out the necks with 300 cases of the BCC brass with a load of 38 HP powder and a load of COW. It did a fine job expanding the necks to the .400" OD the chamber is.

For this rifle I provided my reamer that has the original type transition instead of the now days 45º use. I much prefer the funnel type of the old days. I think they are better for the lead and PP bullets. I have several different calibers with those transitions and all shoot very well.
The 5 cases on the left I just fired in the new CPA and the 5 on the right has the 45º transition I shot in the Hepburn.

Today I just wanted to zero the scope and I loaded sone cases with two different DDPPE bullets a 371-345 DDEPP and a 371-359 DDEPP.

I just shot at 100 yards to get the scope centered and taking the first full load to finish expanding the shell to fit the chamber.
I just used some very old Schuetzen 2F powder for this job and mixed primers, nothing special for the loads. IO will say that this rifle shows like it might shoot pretty good when I get the brass fully formed and a load worked up. Those are all 5 shots at 100 yds the center paster was shot with the 371-459 bullets as well as the top that I made an elevation change after the second shot.

I think I will take both .38's to the Quigley for some 800 yard test loads. I don't get a chance to shoot long around here.

Kurt

  IMG_1287 2.jpeg (Size: 181.13 KB / Downloads: 8)

  IMG_1286.jpeg (Size: 196.02 KB / Downloads: 9) ]]> I got the DZ .38-50 #3 Hepburn about as good as I can shoot it so now it's time for the CPA .38-50
For this rifle I got enough .30-40 Krag shells from Graf last winter when it was still in stock so I keep the Winchester Head stamp for the Hepburn and these BCC case head stamp for the CPA so I wont get them mixed. I have 500 Winchester cases for the Hep and I just blew out the necks with 300 cases of the BCC brass with a load of 38 HP powder and a load of COW. It did a fine job expanding the necks to the .400" OD the chamber is.

For this rifle I provided my reamer that has the original type transition instead of the now days 45º use. I much prefer the funnel type of the old days. I think they are better for the lead and PP bullets. I have several different calibers with those transitions and all shoot very well.
The 5 cases on the left I just fired in the new CPA and the 5 on the right has the 45º transition I shot in the Hepburn.

Today I just wanted to zero the scope and I loaded sone cases with two different DDPPE bullets a 371-345 DDEPP and a 371-359 DDEPP.

I just shot at 100 yards to get the scope centered and taking the first full load to finish expanding the shell to fit the chamber.
I just used some very old Schuetzen 2F powder for this job and mixed primers, nothing special for the loads. IO will say that this rifle shows like it might shoot pretty good when I get the brass fully formed and a load worked up. Those are all 5 shots at 100 yds the center paster was shot with the 371-459 bullets as well as the top that I made an elevation change after the second shot.

I think I will take both .38's to the Quigley for some 800 yard test loads. I don't get a chance to shoot long around here.

Kurt

  IMG_1287 2.jpeg (Size: 181.13 KB / Downloads: 8)

  IMG_1286.jpeg (Size: 196.02 KB / Downloads: 9) ]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3331.html Sun, 26 Mar 2023 15:56:29 -0500 Steveu]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3331.html
Cheers,
Steve]]>
Cheers,
Steve]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3309.html Sat, 26 Nov 2022 18:37:40 -0600 DirtySteve]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3309.html
There is a learning curve here and I can some times be a bit slow on the up take if you know what I mean..

Thanks,

Steve]]>
There is a learning curve here and I can some times be a bit slow on the up take if you know what I mean..

Thanks,

Steve]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3306.html Sat, 15 Oct 2022 08:27:17 -0500 Kevin Alexander]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3306.html I do not have a bullet mould yet for this, but I will probably order a minimum of 2 from BACO.
Thanks in advance,
KA]]> I do not have a bullet mould yet for this, but I will probably order a minimum of 2 from BACO.
Thanks in advance,
KA]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3300.html Tue, 20 Sep 2022 20:55:06 -0500 pacecars]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3300.html


]]>


]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3291.html Thu, 11 Aug 2022 09:34:01 -0500 Pilgrim]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3291.html http://historicshooting.com/thread-3287.html Tue, 02 Aug 2022 08:58:24 -0500 Steveu]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3287.html
Cheers,
Steve]]>
Cheers,
Steve]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3271.html Mon, 27 Jun 2022 08:33:10 -0500 Steveu]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3271.html With the increasing popularity of .38 cals for BPCR, what is the minimum energy needed to reliably knock down the rams ?

Cheers, Steve]]> With the increasing popularity of .38 cals for BPCR, what is the minimum energy needed to reliably knock down the rams ?

Cheers, Steve]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3270.html Sat, 25 Jun 2022 17:33:31 -0500 Kurt]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3270.html
I know nothing about a .40-50 I have seen this rifle at the range when we were shooting, but I don't remember much about it. I know it has a slow twist because he was shooting light cast bullets and I asked about it.

What are your thoughts about the .40-50?

Kurt]]>
I know nothing about a .40-50 I have seen this rifle at the range when we were shooting, but I don't remember much about it. I know it has a slow twist because he was shooting light cast bullets and I asked about it.

What are your thoughts about the .40-50?

Kurt]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3257.html Tue, 24 May 2022 08:55:04 -0500 Steveu]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3257.html
Cheers,
Steve]]>
Cheers,
Steve]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3250.html Tue, 03 May 2022 15:19:15 -0500 martinibelgian]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3250.html
Unortunately, the barrel some time afterwards became toast, probably a combination of remaining copper fouling and BP. Still, it had served to prove the concept would work.

So a new barrel was needed, a custom chamber reamer designed and the new barrel contoured and fitted to the action.

1st thing that bbecame apparent was that the new combination was a lot more sensitive to fouling than the old barrel. This meant a lengthy search to find a reliable load and especially cleaning routine that would yield accuracy. The 1st tries , accuracy was a bit of an on/off thing: the same load would perform well one day, and lousy the next day...

As already mentioned, the barrel is a 1:12 twist Lothar Walther, .308 groove. Chamber is a tight 32-20 shamber with the classic 45 degree case transition, followed by a .100 freebore of .309 diameter, followed by a 3° taper into the rifling.

A lot of experimenting has taught me that this rifle likes to be shot both clean and dry: The bore needs to be both spotless and dry for accuracy to happen, which is a bit of a departure of the larger BP calibres: a typical .45 will lead when shot clean and dry.

Load development has for the moment settled on the following:
- 151gr 30/1 bullet of .308 diameter
- 18.4 grs of 1 1/2 Fg Swiss (yes, 1 1/2Fg works definitely best, even fg shoots quite well), card overpowder wad. Yup, definitely thrifty.

The 174gr Pope bullet is shot with 17.9 grs of powder, and is seated separately with a plugged case, the charged cas being loaded after seating the bullet. It is nor really breechseated, however: the bullet still sticks in he loaded case.
I stopped the experiments with this bullet for the moment, in order to concentrate on the 151gr RN fixed cartridge, but it does show a lot of promise.

Wiping routine as follows: 2 moist ( as in squeezed in a potato ricer) patches, the 1st with a wet VFG felt in front, followed by 2 dry absorbent patches, which leaves the bore both clean and dry.

All of this is a bit of an issue when shooting a Martini action, it definitely requires a flexible wiping rod to push that stuff from the chamber end through the barrel and out of the muzzle.

Result is - after some serious trial and error - a light-recoiling rifle that is becoming reliably accurate, with practical accuracy surpassing that of my .45's at short range, which I would think is mainly due to a smaller, better-balanced an lighter recoiling rifle.

Dont forget that competitions here are mostly prone, with sling - so no crosssticks, just a 2-point sling and the elbows.

I'm already thinking about some improvements too: IMO the main reason for the fouling sensitivity is the parallel .309 freebore section, this after a comparison with the chamber of the take-off barrel - that one would even shoot well blowtubing only. Main difference is a tapered freebore, not a parallel one.

Still, accuracy now is definitely X-ring, or as good as the shooter can hold. However, consisent and thorough cleaning between shots is a must, or she'll start to throw fliers.
No issues with leading, except that the barrel needed some time to smooth out, it definitely is smoother after a year's shooting.

The failure, however, is with PP: The rifle just won't shoot with groove-dia. PP bullets, which are an exact replica of the GG bullet - except a .300 patched up to .308. After lots of trying, I finally abandoned it as hopeless.]]>
Unortunately, the barrel some time afterwards became toast, probably a combination of remaining copper fouling and BP. Still, it had served to prove the concept would work.

So a new barrel was needed, a custom chamber reamer designed and the new barrel contoured and fitted to the action.

1st thing that bbecame apparent was that the new combination was a lot more sensitive to fouling than the old barrel. This meant a lengthy search to find a reliable load and especially cleaning routine that would yield accuracy. The 1st tries , accuracy was a bit of an on/off thing: the same load would perform well one day, and lousy the next day...

As already mentioned, the barrel is a 1:12 twist Lothar Walther, .308 groove. Chamber is a tight 32-20 shamber with the classic 45 degree case transition, followed by a .100 freebore of .309 diameter, followed by a 3° taper into the rifling.

A lot of experimenting has taught me that this rifle likes to be shot both clean and dry: The bore needs to be both spotless and dry for accuracy to happen, which is a bit of a departure of the larger BP calibres: a typical .45 will lead when shot clean and dry.

Load development has for the moment settled on the following:
- 151gr 30/1 bullet of .308 diameter
- 18.4 grs of 1 1/2 Fg Swiss (yes, 1 1/2Fg works definitely best, even fg shoots quite well), card overpowder wad. Yup, definitely thrifty.

The 174gr Pope bullet is shot with 17.9 grs of powder, and is seated separately with a plugged case, the charged cas being loaded after seating the bullet. It is nor really breechseated, however: the bullet still sticks in he loaded case.
I stopped the experiments with this bullet for the moment, in order to concentrate on the 151gr RN fixed cartridge, but it does show a lot of promise.

Wiping routine as follows: 2 moist ( as in squeezed in a potato ricer) patches, the 1st with a wet VFG felt in front, followed by 2 dry absorbent patches, which leaves the bore both clean and dry.

All of this is a bit of an issue when shooting a Martini action, it definitely requires a flexible wiping rod to push that stuff from the chamber end through the barrel and out of the muzzle.

Result is - after some serious trial and error - a light-recoiling rifle that is becoming reliably accurate, with practical accuracy surpassing that of my .45's at short range, which I would think is mainly due to a smaller, better-balanced an lighter recoiling rifle.

Dont forget that competitions here are mostly prone, with sling - so no crosssticks, just a 2-point sling and the elbows.

I'm already thinking about some improvements too: IMO the main reason for the fouling sensitivity is the parallel .309 freebore section, this after a comparison with the chamber of the take-off barrel - that one would even shoot well blowtubing only. Main difference is a tapered freebore, not a parallel one.

Still, accuracy now is definitely X-ring, or as good as the shooter can hold. However, consisent and thorough cleaning between shots is a must, or she'll start to throw fliers.
No issues with leading, except that the barrel needed some time to smooth out, it definitely is smoother after a year's shooting.

The failure, however, is with PP: The rifle just won't shoot with groove-dia. PP bullets, which are an exact replica of the GG bullet - except a .300 patched up to .308. After lots of trying, I finally abandoned it as hopeless.]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3249.html Tue, 03 May 2022 01:44:12 -0500 martinibelgian]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3249.html That, and also the availability of the small BSA Martini actions, which are restricted in cartridge size due to barrel tenon size and action length. However, this is a pretty good action, very solid, with a fast lock time and a pretty decent direct trigger. And I am a Martini fan, of course!
Also, as the base rifle is a .22 match rifle (BSA 12/15), it allows one to have a cheap practice rifle with almost identical ergonomics for cheap and cheerful practice.

Why 32-20? Well, it is of course a period-correct cartridge with brass still (more or less) available, and it allows one to use a good selection of both barrels and moulds. Yes indeed, if one uses a standard .308 barrel, which is what I did. Also, it doesn't use gobs of powder and lead (allowing more practice for the same monay), doesn't kick you as hard in a lighter, smaller, better-balanced rifle.

However, not everything is perfect for match use : Standard barrel twist for the 32-20 doesn't allow the use of heavy-for-calibre bullets, which IMO is one of the essentials for both a clean burn and good accuracy. Which is why I went with a 1:12 twist Lothar Walther barrel. And I did design my own mould, a 151gr RN bullet.
Again, the goal was not to maximize muzzle velocity, but best accuracy at short to mid range. To be honest, I haven't yet chrono'd my ammo yet, but I'm guesstimating it to be in a .22LR velocity range. And with the 174gr Pope bullet semi-breechseated, it could well be subsonic.

Of course, the smaller bore size also has some potential downsides: fouling being the main element here. Also, going for a moderate velocity round (subsonic with the heavier bullets) would also be a potential issue, but as its intended use was short range target work, I was hoping this would prove the concept for the distance

This was the general idea behind the development of a single shot 32-20 match rifle

To be continued...]]> That, and also the availability of the small BSA Martini actions, which are restricted in cartridge size due to barrel tenon size and action length. However, this is a pretty good action, very solid, with a fast lock time and a pretty decent direct trigger. And I am a Martini fan, of course!
Also, as the base rifle is a .22 match rifle (BSA 12/15), it allows one to have a cheap practice rifle with almost identical ergonomics for cheap and cheerful practice.

Why 32-20? Well, it is of course a period-correct cartridge with brass still (more or less) available, and it allows one to use a good selection of both barrels and moulds. Yes indeed, if one uses a standard .308 barrel, which is what I did. Also, it doesn't use gobs of powder and lead (allowing more practice for the same monay), doesn't kick you as hard in a lighter, smaller, better-balanced rifle.

However, not everything is perfect for match use : Standard barrel twist for the 32-20 doesn't allow the use of heavy-for-calibre bullets, which IMO is one of the essentials for both a clean burn and good accuracy. Which is why I went with a 1:12 twist Lothar Walther barrel. And I did design my own mould, a 151gr RN bullet.
Again, the goal was not to maximize muzzle velocity, but best accuracy at short to mid range. To be honest, I haven't yet chrono'd my ammo yet, but I'm guesstimating it to be in a .22LR velocity range. And with the 174gr Pope bullet semi-breechseated, it could well be subsonic.

Of course, the smaller bore size also has some potential downsides: fouling being the main element here. Also, going for a moderate velocity round (subsonic with the heavier bullets) would also be a potential issue, but as its intended use was short range target work, I was hoping this would prove the concept for the distance

This was the general idea behind the development of a single shot 32-20 match rifle

To be continued...]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3241.html Sat, 16 Apr 2022 20:16:11 -0500 Tgc]]> http://historicshooting.com/thread-3241.html