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Paper - Dave Roelle - 09-06-2013
Ok folks, time for another question---this is a continuation of my "paper patch question" from general reloading.
Paper----------has anyone actually tested different papers looking for the general effects of certain types and styles and thickness.
I see just ton's of different opinions-----are they only that ?---is too much made of "cotton content" ?--is thickness related to other dimensional factors , rifling depth perhaps?
Is too much emphasis put on "type of paper"
Looking forward to the discussion
Dave
RE: Paper - Trapper - 09-06-2013
Here is my opinion, I have not been doing this but a few years. I patch to just under bore diameter by .001-.002. The paper I use is 9# 100% cotton. My understanding of how paper is made is that the more cotton content the less fillers are added. It is the fillers that are abrasive, so being a welder/fabricator/machinist for the last 30 years the less abrasives I run down my barrel the better. I also think that 2 wraps of paper should not be thicker than the depth of the riflings. That way it is sure to get cut all the way thru for confetti at the muzzle. Less chance of paper making its way all the way to the target. There is my 2 cents, works for me, I am not a competitive shooter Just a hunter.
Trapper
RE: Paper - Kurt - 09-06-2013
Dave, most any paper will work.
It's more of a bullet/paper combination to come up with the finished diameter you are looking for.
My personal preference is using a cotton composition as high as I can find at the thickness I personally get the best outcome down range.
I have found that 100% wood pulp and 100% cotton rag or parchment shoots just as tight down range. I just like the way the "rag" paper wraps and holds.
I tend to stick with paper that is just slightly thicker with a double wrap than the groove is deep. This just works best down range for me.
I will not use a hard tracing paper like vellum. Now there are different tracing papers that are of the vellum type 100% cotton that are very thin but some are harder than others, but if this is all I can find I will pick the soft Vellum.
Kurt
RE: Paper - Flash Pan Dan - 09-06-2013
I am curious about this also. I am new to PPB but I like to experiment and I have been trying different paper stock, of thicker dimensions, and have been getting interesting results. I’m just wondering if I’m reinventing the wheel.
RE: Paper - Dave Roelle - 09-06-2013
Hi Trapper------------that reasoning seems to come up frequently, it also seems to be on the opinion side of the arguments, meaning its logical but not necessarily a realtime circumstance. Bore scope photo's of barrels having seen 1000's of paper patch bullets don't display any damage that effects performance. Of course those 1000's of bullets may have also been patched with high cotton content paper.
Hi Kurt------------the "softness" makes sense from a viewpoint of being a bit more forgiving of fit conditions, it seems it would compress more easily and so be less of a problem seating with just a push of a finger, the ease of folding also makes perfect sense.
"I will not use a hard tracing paper like vellum" statements like this one are what puzzles me, if there is a reason, thats the understanding i'm looking for ----------the "hardness thing" it seems would be intolerant of small changes in bullet diameter and potentially cause "hard to seat" or "sloppy fit" conditions of patched bullet to barrel, if the bullet were a bit on the small side.
Hi Dan------------hope these discussions help everyone-----i'm new to paper patch also and the folks here have been a tremendous help getting started me down the path and not off in the road ditch.--------------what these folks shared got me going in about 200 rounds fired after literally months of on and off study trying to gain understanding.
Thanks to everyone for the feedback
Dave
RE: Paper - Dave Roelle - 05-06-2014
Hi Folks:
Thought i would resurrect this old thread and see if i can find a few more tidbits before i order a new mold
I have a load working fairly well using a 0.446 creedmore at 520 grains
I'm thinking about a new mold somewhere near 0.446 to get the paper thickness near the rifling depth or about 0.004 for two wraps
Does anyone have a measured thickness list of the various papers being used ?------that would narrow down the paper choice, i understand that the thickness may vary from "the list"--------if such a list does not exist i'll be happy to compile it from your feedback
I plan to order the paper i think will work and generate the exact bullet diameter for a Brooks mold
Thanks in advance
Dave
RE: Paper - MikeT - 05-06-2014
Dave,
GET THE PAPER FIRST! With that said, you can go on an adventure with a bullet mould first and spend trigger time & $ looking for just the right paper.
You have not identified what venue you are shooting, e.g. mid-range, gong matches, hunting or long range.
I target shoot mostly, that is considering paper & gongs as targets.
The best target loads I have are with over bore diameter patched bullets. That means you will have to wipe the bore out every shoot, but the accuracy from shot to shot is supper.
My favorite patching paper was [almost out of it now] 25% rag. My current lot of paper is 100% rag and I don't like it for easy raping. The base fold is tougher to keep under the wet wrapped bullet.
I my experience, 0% rag is fine if the paper is the correct thickness and you are careful when you wrap wet. Rag content makes paper tougher so wrapping wet is no problem.
I have discovered that my 100% rag paper is not a consistent thickness, so I patch my bullets, then size them [when dry] to 0.4505" for my 45-70 LR rifle with a 0.450 bore.
Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT
RE: Paper - Dave Roelle - 05-06-2014
Hi Mike-------------------"Get the paper first"------------thats the goal of this question !!!!!
Note----i have PP working However it can always be improved----and so the quest for a list of papers folks use and their thicknesses------hope it will benefit everyone.
Mike, i hunt and have a PP load thats successful for that------i play sillywetts and i'm experimenting with PP there----------our club range has a "buffler" and creedmore targets, and i play with those as well------------its all fun !!!!!!!!!!!1
Thanks for reply-------which paper are you using and how thick is it ?
Keep well and stay safe
Dave
RE: Paper - Kurt - 05-06-2014
Dave here are some paper weights and thickness. Just because it is listed #9 Does not mean it will be thicker than #7.
You mention using the bullet for hunting and the Gong/long range. I would suggest getting a special mould for hunting and one for matches. Using a tight fitting bullet for hunting is OK if you put your game down on the first shot. If you need a follow up shot using that tight PP bullet you will not get the job done loading it unless you have some tough thumbs or carry a cartridge seater to fully seat that bullet. Target you will have time controlling your fouling, something that might fail when you want that fast follow up shot.
I use Southworth paper. 8-d is 100% cotton and it's a 7.5# that is .0018" thick.
The 409 DNR is a 9# 100% cotton that is .0025" thick
29-D is a 75% cotton that is a 9# at .0018"
700 CPL is a 9# copy paper they used for carbon copies in the old typewriters and it is .0016".
You will see some on E-bay but they get gig bucks for it.
When I find it it runs from $5.00 to $15. a box of 500. the 700 Cpl was $6.00 for a box of 1000 sheets.
All of this paper is discontinued now and the only place I have found it is in a downtown office supply store on dusty shelves in the basement. You will not find it in any of the shopping mall shops.
Seth Cole has some .0015-0018"
The paper Mill has some .0022" but it is 20% cotton
WalMart has some soft tracing paper in the craft section that runs .0018"
RE: Paper - Don McDowell - 05-06-2014
I found a roll of 8# tracing paper at the Staples store in Scottsbluff. I bought it but haven't measured it , or even opened the plastic. Still have an unopened roll of the Seth Cole 55w,which is the paper Kenny uses, and I do as well.
Dan T recommends this paper http://www.utrechtart.com/Utrecht-Tracing-Paper-Roll--8-0-lb---White-26-MP-1053