+- Historic Shooting Forums (http://historicshooting.com)
+-- Forum: General (http://historicshooting.com/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: The rifles (http://historicshooting.com/forum-2.html)
+---- Forum: Single shot centerfire (http://historicshooting.com/forum-14.html)
+---- Thread: .38-50 Hepburn (/thread-3174.html)
.38-50 Hepburn - Kurt - 08-25-2021
Hey guys,
Those of you that shoot the .38-50 what is your feeling for this caliber.
I'm about to press the place the order button at DZ Arms for a #3 Hep.
I want to keep this under 10# with a 30" 1/2 round barrel or full Octagon maybe a #3 or #3.5 barrel if it's ok for this chamber. I want a light rifle like my .44-77 Shiloh hunting rifle.
I'm coming to the realization that it's time to retire these heavy bucking calibers
Pretty much decided on the 1/12 twist. The other day I did a search for brass and I managed to find 300 new Winchester .30-40 Krag cases, spend a couple hrs looking for this brass, like everything else it's just about none existing. They came today. look good too...
RE: .38-50 Hepburn - Distant Thunder - 08-26-2021
I'll be following you and your .38-50 endeavor. I have an interest in that cartridge too. I know Arnie's shoots pretty well and it's pussy cat for recoil. Good luck with your .38-50.
I'm wondering on the barrel, would a round barrel be better on a Hepburn? I believe I'd stay with a 30" barrel, but I don't know anything much about this caliber. I'll watch and learn.
RE: .38-50 Hepburn - Kurt - 08-26-2021
Jim,
This will be interesting for me also. I had a 86 Win .38-56 and I liked the way it performed but it had a slow twist limiting it to light bullets but it worked well.
Shooting Arnies rifle turned me away from the .38-56 I intended in the first place to the .38-50. I think you can push the little .38 lead bullet to fast and it will get squirrly.
Barrel configuration is still undecided. I also feel longer than 30" is not needed from using my rifles that are as long as 35".
I also really favor the round over the others but I don't know if I can get this chamber in a light #3 round or not. I still have to ask Dan about this. If it's a go I will go with the round.
RE: .38-50 Hepburn - Nuclearcricket - 08-26-2021
For what this is worth, I put a GM 3.5 wt .44 barrel on my Pedrosoli Rolling block action, this was a pistol grip action if that might make any difference. It is all steel, no brass trigger guard. 30" length and factory wood. the weight with sights came out to 10.5 pounds. I think the hepburn action would be a little lighter but not by more than a few oz or so.
I would think that DZ would be able to tell you what the finished weight would be for the different barrel contours.
Sam
RE: .38-50 Hepburn - Kurt - 08-26-2021
TNX. Sam.
That is what my light barreled .44-77 Shiloh weighs also and it's like a #3 weight barrel, but the buttstock is a crescent that takes some weight off the wood.
I will call Dan in the morning. I have several questions I need to ask for this project like what he cuts the head space for, Rem, Win, or Hornady brass. they all seem to have slightly different rim thickness. also if he uses the .30-40 or .303 brass with his reamer.
Kurt
RE: .38-50 Hepburn - Nuclearcricket - 08-27-2021
As to the rim thickness of the parent brass, well that is an issue these days. If that is the caliber you want to do with I would lay in as much as you can get your hands on. Depending on what you want to use the rifle for, the 300 you have at the moment may be enough. Again I would think Dan can headspace for what ever parent brass you are using. If you run into a batch of .303 brass at a good price and the rim is thicker go ahead and grab it. It is not difficult to set up your lathe to cut the care rums to a consistent thickness. The 2 things that I found that makes thinning the rims pretty much an easy job is a good way to measure the thickness and consistent neck diameters.
To measure accurately the rim thickness, I took an aluminum bar a bit longer than the overall case length and faced off both ends so that it is good and square, drilled a hole through just big enough for the case to drop in and rest on the rim. I then turned a flat brass slug and made sure it is parallel on both surfaces. I used a dial indicator to measure the head thickness. Set the slug on the top of the aluminum round and set your zero. Drop the case in, set the slug on top of the case head and back under the indicator. That is your head thickness.
To trim the rims from the front side. Make up a slug with shoulder that will just slip in the case neck. Center drill it to put a center in it. Chuck up a piece of stock and turn a shallow counterbore in it just big enough to fit the case head and slightly less deep than the size you need. Put the slug in the case mouth and use the tail stock to push the case tight to the counterbore and then just face in and out with a tool. Once set to the proper thickness it shoudl easily hold the case head thickness to +/- .001". It may sound a bit wonky but it does work.
Sam
RE: .38-50 Hepburn - Kurt - 08-27-2021
The old Bell brass had very inconsistent rim thickness when I formed my .44-90 bn brass from the .44/ 3-1/4" basic brass. I mounted the collet chuck on the lathe with the case on the collet face and lightly snug so not to pull the collet in to far with a dial indicator on the collet face and locked the carriage feed in place and just used the cross feed to face off the head but this took a little time using the dial because the bases were inconsistent in thickness and this needed more pressure pulling the collet in deeper on some.
Then uniforming the depth of the primer pockets. I ended up making some pockets just for pistol primer use.
If I had to do this again I think I would use the mill and face the heads using a slotted chuck jaw.
I think a guy really has to like shooting these old timers to make stuff to use for them
RE: .38-50 Hepburn - Don McDowell - 08-27-2021
30-40 and 303 are both SAAMI spec cartridges. Rim thickness is listed at .064, so rim thickness should not be an issue when forming the 38-50 remington.
RE: .38-50 Hepburn - Nuclearcricket - 08-27-2021
All that work you went through to uniform those rims is why I went ahead and made things up to take the material from the barrel side of the rim instead of the breach block side. I was doing this work for people that had gotten early Uberti 45-60 rifles. Seems that the head space was set to the origional specs and not to current 45-70 brass. I can't find a pic of my set up and it may be on the other camera. I will look later on, if I can't find it I will set things up in the lathe and take a pic.. Once things were set up it was a very simple operation. The case is just driven by friction and you are not taking off very much. Just run the cross slide in and out once your set and they are all the same. Depending on how much you take off they may need touched up a bit with a file to take the burrs off.
Sam
RE: .38-50 Hepburn - Kurt - 08-27-2021
I just called DZ and they cut the recess at .06" so the Winchester cases are right on.
They are having a problem getting barrels so it might be a 9 month delay unless I can find a barrel someplace.