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+---- Thread: Wisconsin Rapids mid-range match with my .44-77. (/thread-3051.html)
Wisconsin Rapids mid-range match with my .44-77. - Distant Thunder - 08-24-2020
On Saturday the 22nd at Wisconsin Rapids Arnie Seitz held a one day BPCR mid range paper match consisting of 1 relay at 300 and 2 relays at 600 yards. Attendance was not large but that didn’t hinder the fun as old friends got together to do some good shooting.
First off congratulations are due to Mark Schuenke for winning the iron sight class with a second 600 yard score of 99-3X finishing with 272-5X for the day. That 99-3X gave Mark the tie breaker over Matt Steckel who also had a 272-5X for the day.
Arnie Seitz won the modern class (any sight and/or any powder) with 256-6X.
I shot my newly rebarreled .44-77 with iron sights and finished with a 270-6X behind Mark and Matt.
Overall my .44-77 did well and I learned a couple of things that I need to work on to step it up a notch.
1) I had some trouble with my bore critters not cleaning all the fouling out of the barrel. My .44 caliber bore critters are patterned after my .45 caliber critters. They have one .452 diameter felt in the front. That has always worked in my .45-90 and .45-70 with no problem. In my .44-77 this design would leave some heavy fouling in the 2 to 3” just ahead of the chamber. Last month for the gong match I used 2 wet and 1 dry patch just as I have through all of my load development and had no trouble at all.
2) I’ve had some trouble getting my new set triggers on this Shiloh adjusted to my satisfaction. I had it set to a minimum engagement and that hasn’t been too bad during development. I was able to get the rear trigger down to a less painful weight. As it came from Shiloh pulling the rear trigger would actually be painful after awhile. Now it is very easy to pull. The front trigger is still too heavy and at the match I was having trouble getting it to break when I wanted it to. It was just too heavy. I’ve worked with it since the match and it seems to be better now.
To improve the fouling control I’ve reworked my bore critters to have 2 felts on the front end. That will hold more of my wiping solution. At a match after each shot I pick up a critter which is in a plastic cartridge box with the felt down soaking in the solution and push into the chamber so that the wet felt is up in the throat area. That sits there while I grab a dry patch and my wiping stick which allows it to soften the fouling in this critical area for several seconds before being push slowly through the bore.
As I said this has always worked well in my straight cased .45s. I’m thinking that with the bottleneck .44 there is somewhat heavier fouling in this area and I need not so much more liquid but a longer wet felt section to soak and soften more of this fouling over a longer area. Does that make sense?
At the match on my 2nd 600 yard relay what I started doing was instead of pushing the critters through with a dry patch I used a damp patch and that seemed to not leave any fouling in the barrel ahead of the chamber. Whether the damp patch was best for accuracy or not I don’t know. I did not have any trouble chambering the rounds and the barrel was hot enough after a few shots that there could not have been much moisture left in the barrel to affect the paper patches. The rifle was shooting well until the last shot which was a low 7 and cost me the win.
Hopefully I’ll have a chance this week to shoot my .44-77 and test the reworked bore critters and the set trigger. Everything else worked pretty well.
I did test two different loads at 600. The first relay I used a load with 86 grains of 1 ½ Swiss and the second relay I used an 88 grain load with all else the same. Both relays had some wind to deal with but it was a little more switchy on the first relay I think. I would say that the 88 grain load shot better. I never hit the 10-ring with the 86 grain load and I was pretty well in the 10-ring with the 88 grain load with a few Xs to sweeten the deal.
I really like the 30 inch barrel and so far it has proven to be long enough. The end of next month I plan to shoot this .44-77 at Lodi for the Fall Classic. That match will be 6 relays over two days all at 1000 yards. I’m hoping the .44-77 will hold up at that distance but I’ll see. I plan to load all my rounds with 88 grains. I don’t see any reason to give up on the Federal 215 primers yet, but I do need to test more primers when they become available after the election year madness dies down.
Arnie’s 2-D EPP bullet is working very well in my standard grease groove chamber, no surprise there. The real test will come at Lodi and I’m looking forward to it.
This .44-77 easily claims the title of the easiest rifle I have ever worked with developing accurate paper patch bullet loads. I’ve only had the rifle two months and it is shooting very well after only 473 round through it, 250 of those were fireforming cases. There are a few things different about this bottleneck from the straight cases I’ve work with before, but this little .44-77 is a cartridge that deserves a better reputation than it gets from all the naysayers on the internet. I can see why it was so popular with the early Creedmoor shooters and I’m sure it would make an excellent hunting cartridge.
To date my best load is as foloows:
BACO 441505EPP at 508 grains (17-twist).
One .060” LDPE wad.
88.0 grains of 1 ½ Swiss (18/01/2016) slow poured thru my 14” drop tube (about 3-4 seconds).
BACO converted .50-110 brass with the neck O.D. turned.
Federal 215 LRM primers.
C.O.A.L. = 3.605”
The 86 grain load shot well enough to give me a 98-4X at 300 yards, but I think the 88 grain load looked a bit better at 600.
RE: Wisconsin Rapids mid-range match with my .44-77. - Don McDowell - 08-24-2020
Yessir, the 44-77 is probably the cream of the crop, but it does have a few different kinks than a straight case.
RE: Wisconsin Rapids mid-range match with my .44-77. - Kurt - 08-24-2020
It was a very pleasant shoot for sure. I will say congratulations to Mark, Mat and Jim all three shot neck to neck.
I did not do well. For some reason the cross hairs on my scope circled the target big time there were only maybe 4-5 shots I could call a good break. I even shot the first 600 yd relay prone something I have not don since the turn of the century and I thought I would have to pull off the line because of the pain. The second 600 I shot off the stool again but still not much change.
I spotted for Jim at the 300 and the last relay on the 600 and he just hammered the 300 with most that stayed in as near as I could judge 1 MOA keeping 4 in the small X ring that target had. He did throw one out in the 7 ring for some reason that cost him the tight race between Marl and Mat. But I guess Henry the Gremlin either jumped off my back on to his or he also has his own Gremlin following him.
Still good shooting Jim. That rifle is a winner for sure.
I shot up my left over rounds this morning of the best batch of the three loads I used at Rapids and off the bench they looked very good and they should have performed better at least at the 300.
Kurt
RE: Wisconsin Rapids mid-range match with my .44-77. - Distant Thunder - 08-24-2020
Kurt,
I've never tried shooting while sitting on a stool up on those tall crossed sticks like you do, but it has got be a challenge for sure. I am just starting to have pain in my neck and shoulders when shooting prone so I may not be too many years from learning the challenges you experience shooting that way. I do hope you will not become so discouraged that you give up on shooting matches. I know I'm am not alone in saying that having you at the matches is a big part of what makes it worth all the time and effort it takes to travel and shoot in them. The experience that you have from all your years shooting and that you share freely with everyone in as important as shooting itself for me. You inspire me with your love and dedication to the sport. Thank you for all you've done to help me and others. I look forward to our net shoot together.
RE: Wisconsin Rapids mid-range match with my .44-77. - Kurt - 08-24-2020
Thank you
Thank you Jim. Those words mean a lot to me.
Kurt
RE: Wisconsin Rapids mid-range match with my .44-77. - beltfed - 08-25-2020
I have to say the same regarding tall stix and sitting up like that.
I was doing that during a time of shoulder surgeries , back issues and a hip replacement.
Very tough to hold on the center. Only one that I saw shoot really well from sitting/tall stix
was George Remington- at Lodi in one of the early matches there , he shot a 139/150 from 1000yds with his Roller.
I believe that 1k score for 15 shots still stands.
Saturday, I managed to shoot prone, but it is still a struggle. I have to arch my back occasionally
like a cat and have difficult getting up after each string.
So, like Jim said, Kurt- you continue to be an inspiration to us all. REALLY enjoy shooting with you.
Hang in there, friend.
Jim, you also are an inspiration in your concentration on working up into that 44-77. Shooting so well.
And Thanks to all who showed up and shot at our Wi Rapids match.
I look forward to running another one next year, whether or not, Lord Willing..., that I can still shoot.
OH, I think I learned what made my shooting go to pot on that last 600- greater and greater binding in my front
scope mount.
I hope that we can grow the match with more shooters.
Please pardon that we ran this non sanctioned match ( intentionally) in a rather casual manner.
Could call it a "squadded" practice...….
Arnie
RE: Wisconsin Rapids mid-range match with my .44-77. - Distant Thunder - 08-25-2020
Arnie,
You and Walt did a great job running the match. There may have been a little confusion with the sighters and when the record should start but that didn't diminish the fun any and it gave us a chance to get plenty of shooting done. It's hard when you're trying to accommodate everyone's needs and we all good friends. A little flexibility was good. It's not the National!
I had a great time and I learned a few things about my .44-77 that would only show up under match conditions. Most importantly, I spent a day shooting with friends. I look forward to the next time!
RE: Wisconsin Rapids mid-range match with my .44-77. - Kurt - 08-25-2020
Arnie,
Don't change a thing. I like the relaxed attitude.
Kurt
RE: Wisconsin Rapids mid-range match with my .44-77. - Gunlaker - 08-25-2020
Thanks for the update Jim. I enjoy reading about your progress with the rifle. With respect to letting the wiping solution soak a bit while picking up the dry patch, I learned exactly the same thing. Actually it was suggested to me by a more experienced shooter and I think it makes a world of difference. When I use my BACO bore wipers for paper patch shooting I do something which is a little weird probably. I push one through with a dry patch, and then I push another through with a dry patch. Using them twice in my .45-90 and .45-110 has never failed to leave a perfectly clean and dry bore. It is slower than a single one obviously, but faster than the 3 wet and one dry patch that I also use sometimes.
It sounds like there were some really good targets shot at that match. I'd love to shoot in the upper 90's at 600!
Chris.
RE: Wisconsin Rapids mid-range match with my .44-77. - Kurt - 08-25-2020
Chris I think we would all like to shoot in the high 90's
or better yet a clean sweep I watched Jim very closely and I see why he shoots so well. He is very precise preparing before the relay and more important he listens to the spotter. If a shot goes astray I don't think that it's his let off too often it's more a unseen missed call from his spotter or maybe an unseen fault with his bullet or load. When I see a shooter put two holes through a small spotting disk that means he put three in that same spot.
My patches are pretty wet, I can wring out the water if I squeeze them. The some times the water drips down the breach when I start the patch through the chamber and it's black when it drops out the barrel. The dry patch comes out damp and I have to use two dry to dry the chamber and bore. I recycle my patches twice washing the used patches not to be conservative cutting new but the washed cotton flannel absorb the moisture better than a new one.