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BPTR Rifle Suggestions - Rockridge - 09-01-2019
While having breakfast with Steve Anderson and his lovely bride the other morning, the conversation turned to Long Range BPTR. On the way home, SWMBO asked, "What is needed for one of those rifles"? Looking back on the answer she received, I realized that I had no idea what the "Ideal" Long Range BPTR configuration actually is.
What Caliber?
Barrel Length?
Twist?
Paper Patch or Greaser?
Scope or Iron Sights?
Bullet Weight/Length?
Bullet Velocity?
After spending many hours on several websites, I think I have an idea of the basics.
What I'm looking for would be the "Best" configuration for Long Range BPTR (800, 900, 1000 yards) at competitions mostly in Wyoming, Colorado, and Phoenix, Arizona.
I realize everyone of us has our favorites, but, what works for you?
And WHY do you think so?
Ed
Rockridge
RE: BPTR Rifle Suggestions - Don McDowell - 09-01-2019
Depends on the rifle model you like be it sharps or high wall etc ,my recommendation would be a 45-90 with a 32 inch barrel , MVA on the rear and Baldwin on the front.
I prefer paper patch ,but grease groove is ok if that’s what you want to do.
Of course if you want to do things somewhat historical, the 44-77 is the cartridge that made the world safe enough for the 45’s ...
RE: BPTR Rifle Suggestions - MikeT - 09-06-2019
Ed,
I agree with the 32" barrel. I shoot a 34" now but my new rifle will be 32". 34" is a pain to get into and out of the safe.
45-70 is the hands down favorite for most shooters be it mid or long range. I shoot PP bullets because they are much easier to get an accurate load for than a grease groove bullet. If the fit of a gg bullet to the chamber configuration is not very good you will not get great accuracy. PP bullets are much simpler to get a very good fit to the bore.
Scope or irons is a personal thing. I am resisting going to a scope even though my sight picture seems to go to the dogs in low light. Scopes must be practiced with until the adjustments are almost automatic. I am guessing if I do go with a scope I will have to quite irons all together to avoid confusion.
The barrel twist is also a personal thing. My 45-70 is a 16 twist, but since I favor lighter bullets, an 18 twist would do the job.
Bullet velocities are generally around 1300 fps plus or minus 20 fps. My 45-70 is between 1280 and 1290 depending on temperature.
Bullet weight is usually about 535-545 grains. I prefer my 525 grain elliptical nose bullet from BA. Some folks believe that a 590 grain bullet in 45 caliber would be best. I doubt that, because I do not feel that less recoil is detrimental to my shooting.
In conclusion, I would add a recommendation to build your LR rifle to the maximum weight allowed. Mine is 14 pounds 14 oz. as weighed-in at a LR match near Lodi, WI.
Keep on hav'n Fun!
MikeT
RE: BPTR Rifle Suggestions - Fogman01 - 09-09-2019
Take a look at the match winners for BPTR competitions. Look at the rifles and calibers they use. Look at what the long range Creedmoor shooters used historically – there was probably a reason they used those calibers to win matches. Consider a 45-90 because it can do anything; hunting, long range, mid-range, silhouette. And it is historical both for hunting and long range target shooting too. You can always load a larger case with less powder... harder to do the other way. The availability of cases, dies, etc is good. I went back through the past auctions of Rock Island and Julia (now Morphy but they have a link to past Julia auctions) and cut and pasted real historic long range and Creedmoor Sharps rifles and made my own reference book as to what the originals looked like and what calibers they used for the long range Creedmoor matches. Then I had Shiloh build me a long range Sharps target rifle that is as historically correct as possible both in looks and in caliber. The early Sharps Creedmoor rifles still had the pewter forearm tip on them which is always nice looking but a lot of those were in 44-90 BN. Mine has a shot gun butt with checkered pistol grip stock and forearm. It is a 32” half octagon/round barrel and in 45-100. Sharps made some long range competition rifles just like this from December 1876 to June 1878. Then Sharps went to 34” barrels and 45-90 caliber. Have fun doing the research – it is incredible to be able to shoot these rifles using black powder and cast bullets you made yourself, laying in the dirt, over cross sticks at 1000 yards with iron sights! You will never learn more about long range shooting than shooting these rifles in this way. Casting, loading, wind analysis, marksmanship fundamentals - it’s all there.
RE: BPTR Rifle Suggestions - Kurt - 09-09-2019
I will go along with the .45-90 also. It's a good case that will let you work up powder loads for what you need for long range.
I have the .44-90 bn chambers on two of my rifles and it is a good shooting cartridge but getting cases is almost impossible now days for a good price but it's a very good caliber for long range and large game hunting.
My .44-100 on a .45 2.6" case has the best accuracy. It out performs all of my other calibers I have but it sports a 35" long 1.3" round untampered barrel with a 1/17 ROT it just flat outshoots everything I have but it does not get used often because of it's weight.
But all in all a .45-90 32" barrel I think is ideal.
BUT for long range the .50-2.5 32" HVY 1/22 ROT barrel is another very good long range caliber using the 700 plus grain bullets if recoil is not a problem. It has collected a lot of dust collectors for me.
RE: BPTR Rifle Suggestions - Rockridge - 09-10-2019
Gentlemen, thank you for your opinions; I greatly appreciate them, and don't stop!
Looks like the consensus is for a 45-90, yet the 44's seem to be more accurate; whether in -77, -90 or -100 flavors.
I'll get to see what "The cool kids" are using while I'm at Byers for the nationals. I'll be using my Shiloh #2 Creedmoor 45-70 ('cause that's what I have), but will order another Shiloh, if necessary.
I'm also thinking about experimenting with Paper Patch in the current rifle. This will be a long term project as I'm still moving and trying to finish building my reloading room. I just purchased another 1K primers, because I can't locate the other primers I have......All I know is that "they're packed in a box" somewhere!
Thank you so much... I'm always learning something. Please keep sharing!
Ed
Rockridge
RE: BPTR Rifle Suggestions - Don McDowell - 09-10-2019
Ed looking forward to seeing you next week in Byers.
RE: BPTR Rifle Suggestions - Kurt - 09-10-2019
Ed I doubt you will see any .44 at Byers unless Don brings his.
I had Shiloh build this Mt Rough Rider but I had to send them my Barrel because I wanted a 17 twist, all they offer is the 19. There is nothing wrong with a 19 but I wanted to use bullets the the 19 wont shoot well so I sent them a 1.3"X36" Krieger barrel blank with my chamber reamer and it ended up being a 35" by the time they got it fitted to the receiver and I wanted it in the white to help reflect the sun heat.
I set up these targets in my yard when I got it home and shot some ladder loads after I shot some cases I sized using a sizing die I made using a matching sizing die reamer from a die blank from PTG. It will just shoot a PP bullet, a GG will not chamber.
I shot 100 rounds at 200 yards on this target with out fouling control except a blow down the chamber a few times using a bullet I use for hunting in the .44-77 to blow out the cases to fit the chamber. The 8 ring is just 6" in diameter. This is why I say the .44's have a great potential for accuracy.
I don't understand why the .44's lost favor over the .45's. Maybe it's like the .308 loosing favor to the .223 because of Military supply of cases
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RE: BPTR Rifle Suggestions - Don McDowell - 09-10-2019
I suspect the bottleneck 44's lost favor because they didn't do well with the smokeless powder of the time. That and all the big bores were rapidly made obsolete by the 30 calibers that were designed around smokeless and jacketed bullets. They served the needs of the shooters of the time much better.
RE: BPTR Rifle Suggestions - Fogman01 - 09-16-2019
Ed,
The reason I did not have a 45-90 built is because I was already "invested" in the 45-100 with two other rifles and I just couldn't take on another caliber, dies, cases, etc. I have several others already and one more is a bridge too far right now. I have an original Creedmoor Rolling Block in 44S (44-77BN) that I will be trying out with breech seated paper patch bullets after the Byers match. I will see you at Byers too.