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50-70 and the BPCR Rookie - bohica793 - 09-12-2017
So I just acquired an 1870 Trapdoor in 50-70. While I have pour and loaded for a ton of smokeless, I have never in my almost 60 years loaded black powder until now. I have started 60 grains of Goex 2F under a .125 card wad with a 450 grain RNFP from an Accurate 52-450L (Lyman 515141 clone) sized .515 and lubed with SPG. My first 5 rounds produced one hole at 25 yards and a thrill down my leg. I'm taking 20 rounds to the 300 yard range tomorrow to see what I can accomplish.
My question is simple: What are others experiences with 50-70. Everybody has loads and bullets for 45-70, but I don't see a lot for the 50. How big are you running bullets? Is there a particular favorite round / load? Paper patching anyone? I want to benefit from others experiences rather than blindly repeat mistakes.
Thanks.
RE: 50-70 and the BPCR Rookie - Don McDowell - 09-13-2017
Pagin Mike Nesbitt, paging Mr. Nesbitt....
Mike is probably one of the most dedicated 50-70 shooters I know.
Hopefully we can get Stephen Borud, to chime in he uses a 50-70 to fill his freezer on a regular basis.
lastly welcome to our forum,
RE: 50-70 and the BPCR Rookie - Fogman01 - 09-13-2017
Welcome to the forum. I applaud your willingness to try BP and shoot your rifle they way it was built to be shot. You are already experiencing the satisfaction or resurrecting and respecting an old rifle and piece of history. My friend bought a Remington rolling block rifle for $100 at an auction years ago and never shot it. I had it chamber cast and found it was likely a .43 Spanish. I shoot different calibers of BP rifles so loaded him a few light BP loads, 45 grains Swiss with a 370 gr pp bullet I knew would make it through the barrel. His first shot at 75 yards was in the 9 ring and the second was in the X ring. The rest made a decent group. He was thrilled and very satisfied to have brought back to life a piece of history from 1874. I have an original Remington RB Creedmoor I am working on getting it out to respectable yardage. I have shot it to 300 yards so far. I learned to pp and breach seat it they way it was shot at the Creedmoor matches. Very satisfying bringing life back to these old originals!
RE: 50-70 and the BPCR Rookie - Mike - 09-13-2017
Bohica, First of all, consider Mike Venturino's book "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West" as assigned reading, get a copy. (Those are available through several outlets, including C. Sharps Arms.) Mike has a very good chapter devoted to the .50/70. Your Springfield will probably prefer bullets sized to .515" or maybe even larger. I've never played with an original .50/70, all of mine are new rifles either from C. Sharps Arms or a couple that I hammered together myself using old rolling block actions. The barrels on my guns have a general groove diameter of .512" so all of my 'greasers' are sized to .512". You mentioned Accurate Molds' #52-450L, not a bad bullet at all. I asked for changes which became #52-450L2, mainly increasing the size of the lube grooves to carry more lube and to make the nose of the bullet more like the original shape. In my .50/70 Sharps with the 32" barrel I've had bullets that "ran out" of lube before exiting the barrel. My most used load, might as well call it my favorite load, uses the Accurate #52-450L2 bullet over a Walters' .060" veggie wad and 65 grains of Olde Eynsford 2F powder. Two paper patch loads are also used, one with the Accurate #50-470T tapered bullet, which weighs very close to 473 grains when cast with a 30-1 alloy, and another with KAL's adjustable Gibbs .50 caliber mold set to drop bullets at about 500 grains. Either of those paper patched bullets are loaded over 70 grains of Olde Eynsford 1 1/2F powder, compressed under a Walters' wad and a grease cookied. I like to call the paper patch loaded my "hunting loads" although a hunt has not yet happened. One big difference you will find with your Springfield is the rate of twist at 42", if it has the original barrel. For bullets over 450 grains we can consider that too slow. The Sharps rifles, both the newly made ones by C. Sharps Arms (and Don's original) have barrels with a 1 in 26" rate of twist. I recently finished a rolling block with a custom barrel from Oregon Barrel Co. that was cut with a 1 in 32" rate of twist and so far I really like that. My "camp gun" is a Sharps '74 with a 26" half round barrel in .50/70. That gun shoots very well and I've used it in some short range competition. Next I have a 30" barreled Sharps which was my first .50/70 but that doesn't get used as much as it used to. And I have my 32" heavy (13 pounds) .50/70 Sharps which does get used, quite a lot. Finally, my .50/70 rolling block with the 1 in 32" rate of twist barrel and that gun will be shot today, trying to dial in the new rear sight. Let's just say, as Don McDowell hinted, I do like the .50/70. What else can I tell you?? Shoot sharp, Mike
RE: 50-70 and the BPCR Rookie - Mike - 09-13-2017
Bohica, You might enjoy dropping down to the Publications section of this forum and reading The American Sharps Shooters 2015-6. The lead story is about my little .50/70 Sharps. Shoot sharp, Mike
RE: 50-70 and the BPCR Rookie - alfajim - 09-14-2017
Bohica glad to welcome you to the forum and con grats on picking up a original Springfield trapdoor. I have a 1879 45-70 and am assembling one to use as a shooter as the 79 is a heirloom pass down from great Grand dad to Grand dad to me so really don't want to shoot it much.
One thing important to know about the trapdoors is they are made with 3 lands and grooves not like the Sharps and Remingtons with 5 or 6 lands and grooves so they require a different loading bullet procedure to use, that works with the trapdoor.
Spence Wolfes book for the 45-70 Springfield covers the original armory loadings very well but it might be that Dick Hosmers book for the 58-50 trapdoors would be a good choice too it is available from Amazon in either hard copy or knidle.
Jim
RE: 50-70 and the BPCR Rookie - bohica793 - 09-14-2017
Thank you all for the warm welcome and information. I have a lot more reading and research to do. Mike, I am curious regarding your comment about the 1 in 42 twist rate in my original Springfield as it relates to bullets over 450 grains. I had hoped to run something a little heavier (maybe up to 500), especially in a longer paper patched round. Are you saying this is a non-starter?
RE: 50-70 and the BPCR Rookie - Mike - 09-14-2017
Bohica, Give it a try. Whatever I say about the 42" twist is only a generality because I've never tried one and I've never shot your rifle. I will suggest that you buy bullets to try instead of buying new bullet molds for those 500 grain bullets. Also, let me suggest that you get a copy of The .50/70 Shooter's Handbook by Croft Barker. (cisternnkat@yahoo.com, $24.50 + $3.50 S&H) Croft has a whole chapter about the rate of twist. And I shot my rolling block with the 32" twist yesterday using bullets from Accurate's #52-450L2 mold over the 65 grains of OE 2F. The new sight had not been sighted-in and my first four shots at just 50 yards cut a jagged hole at 12 o'clock in and out of the black. Other shooting was done at longer ranges but now the sight has been adjusted and I'll go back to the range soon. So far all is very pleasing. Shoot sharp, Mike
RE: 50-70 and the BPCR Rookie - Mike - 09-14-2017
Bohica, Also, drop down to Publications and read The American Sharps Shooters 2013-1 about Dick Savage's buffalo hunt with his .50/70 Sharps. Some doin's!!
RE: 50-70 and the BPCR Rookie - Mike - 09-15-2017
Today I loaded more .50/70s with the #52-450L2 bullets, to be fired tomorrow.
Maybe a report shall follow. Shoot sharp,