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4070 SS - ken s - 07-01-2017
I shoot an original Sharps Bridgeport sporting rifle,40 70 SS.
The shells always stick a little. I wipe clean, balistol/water mix, and clean the chamber each shot. they pop out, but I have to push the lever.
Nothing I cannot live with..
BUT. I tried a few at the end of the session last week, WITHOUT ANY CLEANING.
and they POPPED OUT. easy snap of the lever, and out they came.
mmmmmm?????
The load is a custom Brooks 330 RN sized .410 and spg lube.
grooved bullet. 60 2f Old E. 060 card, light compress. 1/6 at most.
4 inches at 100....if I'm having a good day.... Ken
[attachment=924]
RE: 4070 SS - Kurt - 07-01-2017
Ken what is the base diameter of the fired shell?
RE: 4070 SS - bruce moulds - 07-03-2017
ken,
your rifle looks old, but is it as you describe, original?
I suspect not, because it will chamber a round containing a 0.410 bullet.
either you are neck thinning the brass, or the rifle has been buggered up.
the problem is that some people who do not know about these things read them and think that original rifles can take big bullets.
when they get a true original that won't take big bullets they think something is wrong with it and get a gunsmith who does not know to bugger it too.
another piece of history lost and misdirected.
keep safe,
bruce.
RE: 4070 SS - Kurt - 07-03-2017
Ken that is a fine bullet for the .40-2.5. It's of original design and it will shoot well as far as the sights will adjust for the range.
Kurt
RE: 4070 SS - desert deuce - 07-04-2017
ken: Two things
first have you slugged the barrel, and if so what is the groove diameter
it could be anywhere from .403 to .406 groove diameter
second can you take a fired case and slide the bullet in the mouth of the case easily after deburring the mouth of the case....if not you need a bullet the diameter that will slide in the mouth of the case easily
RE: 4070 SS - ken s - 07-08-2017
(07-04-2017, 10:06 PM)desert deuce Wrote: ken: Two things
first have you slugged the barrel, and if so what is the groove diameter
it could be anywhere from .403 to .406 groove diameter
second can you take a fired case and slide the bullet in the mouth of the case easily after deburring the mouth of the case....if not you need a bullet the diameter that will slide in the mouth of the case easily
That is what I have. I use a .410 sizer for the 410 Brooks mold. 330 RN grooved.
I expand the case to 410 and slide the bullet in. The expansion is very very small.
It just permits the bullet to go in the case, then a factory crimp die VERY slight crimp and I'm done.
For the PP, 330 Brooks mold too, I do the same, expand to 410, then slide the bullet in and crimp slightly.
The PP is patched smaller to 404 , or a little bigger with the 55W paper.
All these slide in the cleaned chamber, and eject well. I find the new chamber cleaner I bought that uses the 410 shotgun swab works very well.
Cleaning the chamber after wiping, really helped the ejecting /sticking problem
Ken
RE: 4070 SS - desert deuce - 07-08-2017
Ahhhhhhhh, obviously I was not clear and failed to explain my recommendations thoroughly. I have tinkered with these old smoke poles quite a bit and assumed too much.
The rifle in question was built in the 19th Century, not subject to SAAMI specifications.
Therefore, to begin determining how to load for that rifle one has to know the critical dimensions for that particular rifle and it is probably best to assume that those dimensions are unknown until they are established for that particular chamber and bore.
The simple way to accomplish finding the best way to load for those unknowns is to slug the bore to determine bore and groove diameter and then take a fired, otherwise untouched case, and see if the .410 bullet you have will slide in the mouth of the case easily. If it will not, then the bullet is TOO LARGE in diameter and can precipitate the problems you mentioned as well as stretch your brass and give inconsistent bullet release. You need to use a bullet that slides into the fired case easily even if that is a .403" diameter bullet which in fact it may be. From what you write it is very likely less than .410".
Because, if you have to use a .410" neck expander, or a neck expander at all, to seat the bullet you are implying that .410" diameter bullet is too large for the chamber and that is more important to know than bore/groove at this point because the problem you bring up involves the fired case release in the chamber. The bore mop is of course a good idea ,however, you may be masking the underlying problem, but loading correct ammunition in the first place is far, far more important to good results and optimum accuracy from the rifle.
RE: 4070 SS - ken s - 07-09-2017
(07-08-2017, 11:35 AM)desert deuce Wrote: Ahhhhhhhh, obviously I was not clear and failed to explain my recommendations thoroughly. I have tinkered with these old smoke poles quite a bit and assumed too much.
The rifle in question was built in the 19th Century, not subject to SAAMI specifications.
The simple way to accomplish finding the best way to load for those unknowns is to slug the bore to determine bore and groove diameter and then take a fired, otherwise untouched case, and see if the .410 bullet you have will slide in the mouth of the case easily. If it will not, then the bullet is TOO LARGE in diameter and can precipitate the problems you mentioned as well as stretch your brass and give inconsistent bullet release. You need to use a bullet that slides into the fired case easily even if that is a .403" diameter bullet which in fact it may be. From what you write it is very likely less than .410".
Because, if you have to use a .410" neck expander, or a neck expander at all, to seat the bullet you are implying that .410" diameter bullet is too large for the chamber and that is more important to know than bore/groove at this point because the problem you bring up involves the fired case release in the chamber. The bore mop is of course a good idea ,however, you may be masking the underlying problem, but loading correct ammunition in the first place is far, far more important to good results and optimum accuracy from the rifle.
RE: 4070 SS - ken s - 07-09-2017
(07-09-2017, 09:42 AM)ken s Wrote:(07-08-2017, 11:35 AM)desert deuce Wrote: Ahhhhhhhh, obviously I was not clear and failed to explain my recommendations thoroughly. I have tinkered with these old smoke poles quite a bit and assumed too much.
The rifle in question was built in the 19th Century, not subject to SAAMI specifications.
The simple way to accomplish finding the best way to load for those unknowns is to slug the bore to determine bore and groove diameter and then take a fired, otherwise untouched case, and see if the .410 bullet you have will slide in the mouth of the case easily. If it will not, then the bullet is TOO LARGE in diameter and can precipitate the problems you mentioned as well as stretch your brass and give inconsistent bullet release. You need to use a bullet that slides into the fired case easily even if that is a .403" diameter bullet which in fact it may be. From what you write it is very likely less than .410".
Because, if you have to use a .410" neck expander, or a neck expander at all, to seat the bullet you are implying that .410" diameter bullet is too large for the chamber and that is more important to know than bore/groove at this point because the problem you bring up involves the fired case release in the chamber. The bore mop is of course a good idea ,however, you may be masking the underlying problem, but loading correct ammunition in the first place is far, far more important to good results and optimum accuracy from the rifle.
Thanks DD. I use the 410 expander to hand seat the PP bullet without catching the patch. then SLIGHTLY fac crimp on the PP bullet. It holds it without taring it.
The 330 grooved is larger on the recommendation of Steve Brooks when he made the mold. It can be sized down if need be. While it won't quite hand seat a fired case, It is really close. again, expanded to allow seating without damage to the bullet.
I've been doing this for 45 years too, and it's the journey, not the destination.
Thanks for the reply. Ken in Florida.
RE: 4070 SS - ken s - 07-10-2017
Hi Guys. ok. I'm probably the only one reading this..but...here is the scoop on bore size of the Original 40 70 sharps. and bullet sizes.
This is taken verbatim off the net:
This is another cartridge with ballistics similar to a half-dozen others of different make or origin. There are actually more than a dozen 40-caliber cartridges with powder charges of around 40 to 70 grains and none offer any stupendous advantage over the others. Like other 40 Sharps numbers, this one used a 0.403-inch-diameter bullet, weighing 330 or 370 grains. These chambers were cut to use bore-diameter bullets (often paper-patched). Groove diameter is typically 0.408 inch to 0.411 inch. A number of Lyman bullet molds are available in this size. Although longer, this case has the same basic body as the 30-40 Krag. However, because head spacing is on the rim, it may not be possible to safely use that case to make the 40-70 except for very-low-pressure loads. (Cartridges of the World 9th Edition)
SO.. I use a .403 paper patched 330 bullet, and a RN 330 grooved at .410 sized.
They are both correct for the size of the original bore. 64 2f, and jamison brass
made for the original from B Arms.
The PP is for bore size and the RN grooved fits the Groove diameter.
All chamber and eject....no problem....
Ken