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BP only - Old Jim - 07-06-2015
What's your thoughts about BP only (at BPCR) style matches/shoots.
Inquiring old mind,
Jim
RE: BP only - Don McDowell - 07-06-2015
I don't really have any problem with it, when we're talking about "buffalo" rifle matches. After all they do call it black powder cartridge rifle for a reason...
Leverguns and handgun matches I don't think it's a very prudent thing to do.
RE: BP only - Old Jim - 07-06-2015
Your correct.
Then could we ever support an event that had a paper patch only class, as that was how TODGs did it. I personally haven't tried PP much, but would love to see an all PP shoot.
RE: BP only - Don McDowell - 07-06-2015
I doubt there would ever be enough to support a paper patch only class. There's so few folks that do shoot patched.
But I don' think when you specify single shot rifles in calibers 375 and larger it's much of a stretch to go with blackpowder only. The NRA bpcr sillouette and target rifle matches require either black or substitutes. For the most part there's no shortage of shooters at those matches.
RE: BP only - MikeT - 07-06-2015
(07-06-2015, 02:27 PM)Old Jim Wrote: What's your thoughts about BP only (at BPCR) style matches/shoots.
Inquiring old mind,
Jim
Jim,
When a limit is placed on the propellant like BP only, then you will leave some folks at the curb. If we want more shooters, then at least duplex should be included in the BP loads. Not saying that duplex is any safer than smokeless, but at least the load is mostly BP, with no fillers or wads on top of a small smokeless load.
Did Dave tell you about his shooting adventure with a scope? It seems he cleaned both targets on Sunday at the Q.
Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT
RE: BP only - Old Jim - 07-06-2015
Mike,
I agree about more shooters into the sport. The more the marrier, they always say
.Yup, Dave called after he got home, rascal had to tell me all about the two "8" pins. Pretty good shootin'.
Surely did miss the whole Restwel bunch this year.
Take care,
Jim
RE: BP only - Semtav - 07-07-2015
I don't know why anyone thinks a lever action loaded with smokeless is safer than a single shot. they come in 45-70, 45-75, 40-82 and 38-55 to name a few. A screw up in loading one of those will have the same drastic results. There just arent 600 plus people shooting them at one match is the only difference. It will be a shame if they do have to go that route.
RE: BP only - Don McDowell - 07-07-2015
(07-07-2015, 01:15 AM)Semtav Wrote: I don't know why anyone thinks a lever action loaded with smokeless is safer than a single shot. they come in 45-70, 45-75, 40-82 and 38-55 to name a few. A screw up in loading one of those will have the same drastic results. There just arent 600 plus people shooting them at one match is the only difference. It will be a shame if they do have to go that route.
My reasoning behind saying what I did about levergun and handgun matches, is because the distances are generally relatively short. Most leverguns won't handle the heavy bullets, therefore the mental reasoning to load them heavy pretty much disappears. The vast majority of the leverguns being used in matches are of new production, and don't have the inherent weaknesses of the big bore single shots.
Handguns are for the most part chambered in cartridges with nearly twice the saami maximum average pressures of the traditional big bore single shot rifles.
I could really give a whit less whether or not the gong matches outlaw smokeless. If they did it wouldn't bother me at all, because I shoot black more than smokeless.
RE: BP only - Lumpy Grits - 07-07-2015
When you say 'BP' are you including the 'subs'?
Some of which produce far more psi that real BP does.
Gary
RE: BP only - Kurt - 07-07-2015
The saga about smokeless/blk will go on forever.
Duplexing will come into play if smokeless is banned if it is ok to use in the gong matches or not. It don't take much fast pistol powder to get a clean burn so it will get worked in to loads if a shooter wants to cheat at this game. a long rifle case full of H-110 is hard to detect.
I experimented a couple years ago with duplexing when a friend was doing it and stated that he had good results doing it so I worked with it for about a month shooting over the chronograph and looking at the paper down range and I found some very disturbing readouts shooting over the chronograph and felt recoil as well as hard case extractions with 6% and less loads with mid range burn rate powders and this stopped the experiments in a hurry for me.
Yes I saw clean bores but the down range results did not get better then using the blk loads.
I have yet to get into the subs. I won a can of 209 at a drawing a couple years ago and it is still unopened.
When you start mixing smokeless with black you change the chemistry of the load and it can get worse then a straight load of smokeless, especially if some nut gets into the fast shotgun or pistol powder thinking he can hide a duplex load.
My feeling on this is, ban such practices at all "black powder" shoots. If they want to shoot smokeless let them get into the CMP or F class matches. Yes the Q and other shoots will see a slight drop in shooters for a year or so but you will see them get back into the big bore again. The Q could use some down sizing to make it more manageable for the crew working it and for the competitors, but either way I will attend these shoots as long as I can shoulder my rifles. I will not let a few knot heads stop me from not shooting at the Q or any other blk powder shoot.
Kurt