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irons and scopes - Steve Anderson - 01-21-2015
My perception from studying a few match scores seem to suggest that the iron sighted scores are usually higher than the scoped rifle scores. If that's true, can someone explain why that is? To me scopes should outdo the irons. Another world for sure, but the benchrest boys shoot scopes. So what gives? I can't get my old head around it. Thanks, Steve.
RE: irons and scopes - Mike - 01-21-2015
Steve, Maybe we should say iron sight shooters out shoot most of the scope shooters. A scope is simply another kind of sight with some advantages and some disadvantages. More than likely the winning shooters, such as the top ten shooters at Quigley last June who all used iron, are simply better shots. Shoot sharp, Mike
RE: irons and scopes - Kurt - 01-21-2015
Steve.
From my own personal use of the scope and the iron sights shooting on the Alliance and Quigley ranges I do better with the tang sights.
For load development here at home at our close range I use the scope where the setting does not have to be moved for elevation as well as the parallax. The heavy floater I have makes using the tang sights tough even with the Hadley wide open makes the white dot on the iron gong targets split into two parts and they dance around. The scope lets a lot more light to reach my eyes where it eliminates a lot of this problem but I still cant score as high using the scope as using the tang sights.
Kurt
RE: irons and scopes - bobw - 01-21-2015
Simple I think. If you have vision challenges you go to a scope. If irons work you stay with them, people who have exceptional eyesight see no need for a scope. You can only shoot as well as you can see. So your people with vision challenges go to the scope for better score not because they are better shooters. Aim for the ctr of the fuzzy and let the devil take the hindmost. bobw
RE: irons and scopes - Steve Anderson - 01-21-2015
First let me say the question is innocence showing on my part. I've never shot the older period style of scopes. So, I ponder whether the low power of those scopes is the issue, is it the parallax problem or is it in the external adjustment of these scopes. Reason to me would urge the use of scopes for my best shooting. It's fun to shoot the irons and I'm grateful that I still can. Meanwhile the mind races with the how and why irons seem to excel over the scope.
For sure and for certain, if a guy has vision issues and can't do irons then there is no choice. In the end here, I can't believe that a iron sight shooter is just a better shot. It seems to be about the sighting system. So I stay perplexed. Steve
RE: irons and scopes - Kurt - 01-21-2015
Steve I don't think shooting a scope has an advantage over the tang sights as well as the high power or low.
It's still what is done by the person behind the butplate.
If you have trained using the tang sights and your vision is still good like mine was I shot just as good either way but I found it a lot easier using the tang sights by not over correcting.
RE: irons and scopes - Gunlaker - 01-21-2015
I think Bob and Kurt have it right.
There is one more factor. Windage and elevation adjustments. If you are using an MVA Malcolm style scope it's more awkward to adjust than an MVA tang. Also, with an MVA tang I can make a quick half minute or minute windage correction without shifting my position much, if at all. I can't do that with the MVA Malcolm scope. Although you can hold off easier with a scope :-)
I think that in this case the Unertl style adjustments on the Dan Zimmerman scope, or the MVA B5, give the greatest advantage.
Chris.
RE: irons and scopes - Don McDowell - 01-22-2015
With the Malcolm style scopes there's a certain bit of inconsistency in the scope returning to the exact same position after each shot. Then there's parallax to deal with.
Shooting 22 sillouettes I have a hard time seeing the turkeys thru the irons, scope at least lets me see them...
I do like the scope somewhat better when shooting the paper matches as it seems to give a more certain and repeatable aiming point, but then we fall back to that scope landing in the same spot each time after the recoil....
RE: irons and scopes - Gunlaker - 01-22-2015
That's a good point about the parallax. If it's wrong you are gonna have trouble!
Happy birthday Don.
Chris.
RE: irons and scopes - Don McDowell - 01-22-2015
Thanks for the Bday wishes Chris.
I really think there's so many more variables in shooting the Malcolm scope than there is a soule/vernier sight. But once someone like Kenny, Klaus and Margo Hansen get all those variable worked out, they don't take much if any of a back seat to irons,,, but it takes a lot of learning and practice.