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+---- Thread: Paper Question (/thread-3380.html)
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RE: Paper Question - Kurt - 04-13-2024
Steve,
What is the thickness your looking for?
The paper I mentioned above runs .0017-.0018" depending where I put the mic.
The price had gone up since I ordered the last 5 reams. But it's a good patching paper for my use. I order my moulds with the .002" to the .0017" paper.
I still have a supply of different Southworth cockle finish 50% and 100% cotton but it's running out
https://www.thepapermillstore.com/fidelity-onion-skin-white-paper-8-1-2-x-11-in-10-lb-bond-smooth-500-per-ream.html
RE: Paper Question - Steveu - 04-15-2024
Kurt,
I was looking for something around .0016-.0017" to make up for the shrinkage that I have with SC55W when wet patching. I think that I am going to dry patch some to see what the rifle does with them first. I may be looking for a solution to a problem that does not exist! Thanks for the link for the onion skin paper, I may have to try some of it if the dry patched diameter shoots better.
Cheers,
Steve
RE: Paper Question - JKR - 04-15-2024
Steve,
I can’t think of any reason why dry patching wouldn’t work for you if it gives you a good fit. I’ve mainly dry patched from the start with one short detour into wet patching. I’ve come to believe that patching wet increases the chance of the patch sticking to the bullet. Having said this, there are many good shooters who swear by it.
Jim
RE: Paper Question - Kurt - 04-15-2024
Steve,
Why don't you PM me your mailing address and I will send you enough to get you through for a while.
Steve, shooting lead alloy PP bullets they will fill the grooves .003 under bore without a problem. Over the years I dug a lot of them out the deep snow to see the effects of using different ways and alloys what it does. I like to shoot dirty, no fouling control just for fun shooting and when the Grand Kids want to shoot so I load rounds with bullets undersized like I load for hunting. For them I use a OJ carton wad and compress the powder and I use a thick lube wad and a .06" card wad under the bullet. This takes a lot of case volume away from the powder load but I do it for the Kids to reduce the recoil.
I think this is what a lot of the guys do shooting the larger long shells do it too What I see with the recovered bullets patched 2-3 thousands under bore, they all fill the grooves just as good as one patched snug to bore diameter. The problem starts when a very hard alloy is used, harder than 1/16 L/T they start getting some mouse nibbles at the base and land marks show just above the patch line on one side of the ogive. Not all but some when I just use a .023" OJ carton wad. This is a sign of runout when I see that.
For match loads I want a snug to bore patch fit and one .06 wade between the powder and bullet is enough. I don't use a lube wad of any kind shooting PP unless I want to shoot dirty.
I like using a Lee bullet push through sizing die that is bore diameter. This has a benefit folding the under wrap of the patch tight with a sharp edge like you see wet patching but the paper releases just as well as regular dry patching. A $25. Lee die will work just fine when your a couple thousands over bore to get them so you can get the shell loaded without having to use a pusher.
RE: Paper Question - Steveu - 04-15-2024
Thanks Kurt, PM sent.
RE: Paper Question - J.B. - 04-15-2024
Kurt, while touching on the Lee 'push through' sizer dies I wondered if you used any lube on the paper or doing just fine pushing them through dry ? I've ordered a couple and used them mainly for the 40 calibre projectiles. They certainly work but find it will actually cut the paper at the fold under the bullet quite often. Whether this is my wrapping ( always quite likely ) or just another technique I need to get a handle on. ? I try to set my moulds up around S.C. 55 W but every now and then the necks are just a tad too tight..so a run through the die or dropping back to S.C. yellow. Most of the other papers I've been able to source are significantly more thick..as per Arnies table ( thanks Arnie ) . A shame because some of slightly thicker papers seem to wrap more evenly..or they do for me at any rate.
rgds.. gavin.
RE: Paper Question - Kurt - 04-15-2024
Hi Gavin,
No I never had damage and I don't lube the patch. Maybe a slightly oversized soft bullet might swage the base up before it enters the die and cause the damage ?? I don't know.
I use a 1/17 T/L alloy as well as a T/L/antimony alloy mix and the paper runs from .0017 to .0022. I dont use the real thin paper.
Hey 25# printer paper works good. I patch some of my .44 cal. up for the .45's and they work just great also
Bill Bagwell wanted to cast some with my .44 mould for his .45 business rifle and he wrapped them with the 25# printer paper to get the proper diameter and shot a very tight group at 400 yards doing it LOL.
Stay well J.B.
Kurt
RE: Paper Question - Kenny Wasserburger - 04-20-2024
I have been down that road with .441 diameter bullets and the thick BACO paper.
Shots very well to 200-300 yards, past that distance things begin to fall apart. It will yield 2 dirt diggers in 10 shots for score at 800 yards, even to 1000 yards.
Anyone that advocates that type of advice isn’t your friend or? Doesn’t know crap about long range shooting this was done with both 20-1 and 16-1 alloy.
It’s due to the increased amount of setback plus…. Paper too thick to be evenly cut by the rifling. This causes excessive nose set back or slumping. The thiner the bullet diameter the more the lead has to move to fill the grooves. Just common sense.
KW
RE: Paper Question - Steveu - 05-07-2024
All,
Thanks to Kurt for the samples of 3 different papers to try in the 40-65 with the DDEPP. Sothworth 409, Papermill and some onionskin copy paper. I loaded up 6 of each and took them to the range this morning for testing @ 200 yards. I wet patched the bullets and the 409 was the thickest then the onionskin and then the papermill, which is very close to the SC55W. I wiped with 2 damp patches and one dry which is what I did when I tested the SC55W. The Papermill shot the best to my suprise both in group and ES. I thought that the thicker paper would have shot better due to a better fit in the bore. Elevation was 1/2 moa with 4 shots touching and a es of 8. The other 2 loads shot 3" vertical and es of 15. I would have posted pictures, but I forgot my phone!
Next is to load up the PM & SC to shoot at 400 yards. I should have my bore weasels ready by then to test also.
Cheers,
Steve
RE: Paper Question - Kurt - 05-07-2024
Steve,
Sounds like you will find what will show justice soon.
I like the Papermill and the Southworth 409 I use those two the most. The thin Southworth Copy paper I used way back when the old typewriter was still in heavy use before these one eyed monsters took over
making multi sheets of carbon copy's but it's way too thin at .001" +- a little for my liking. I use paper that makes two wraps at least groove deep and the Papermill or the 409 does that just fine. I have other paper that is listed at 7 1/2 lb that runs .0019" thick. You cant rely on poundage for thickness. Take a Mic when you go to a paper store and measure it for your bullet diameter needs.I find what works best for me is two wraps on the shank making a snug fit in the bore for good bullet alignment.
When wet patching, pay attention when the patch drys on the bullet, unwrap one to check how bonded the patch is on the bullet. Some paper uses different sizing compounds that might act like a binder, (glue) it will ride with the bullet down range sometimes. I find dry patching to be best for me.