I like it John. It might be pushing the envelope on the short end for a 18 ROT but maybe not shot from a .45-70 slowed down a smidge. I never shot a .459" bullet this short but it might make a fine bullet for the silhouette game and hunting like Bill said.
If Tom can hit that ogive and bands like you have drawn I just might order one of his two cavity brass moulds.

Kurt, A brass mold from Tom sounds like a good idea. I only have one brass mold but I like casting with it. It is a NASA for a 38 caliber from Bernie.

Speaking to the 121 (modified) specifically, I reckon I could extend the length but then I get heavier, which I'm trying to avoid. But I'll be at or close to 475 with either the 132 or that Sharps bullet.

Generally speaking, what length do you prefer for a 45-70 with an 18 twist?

I'm new to that caliber with BP, which you've no-doubt picked up on by now. But I load a 400gr bullet in my 40-65 pretty light (56gr of OE 2f) with only "insurance" compression. It does well by my evolving standards.

If it's any measure of that no-compression load I at least won a lightly attended BPCR match (first and only one so far) with that load - and I scored a 7 and an 8-pin on the two closer targets at the Q this year on the second day when the wind had died down. Score was still paltry but it shot well at the Buffalo judging from my strikes in the dirt. Mostly I think because I was completely out of windage on that first day when the winds were so strong and I was holding the bull about halfway along the horizontal wire outside my aperture - about mid-way between the aperture and the inside of the globe. I was holding pretty good windage that way but five strikes were just inches over and just under the rib cage, which would make one think "vertical problems" but the real problem was getting an equal sliver of white bull on top & bottom of that thin wire which nearly obscured the bull. All that said, that no-compression load was about 1265fps. Not sure what a no-compression load would amount to in a 45-70 with a 455gr bullet. Guess there is only one way to find out - but out there to 800 and beyond is an objective here. Would like to include that Lone Tree shoot near Kalispell on the calendar this year if all goes well. Perhaps not with this bullet hey?

I have two of Toms multiple cavity brass moulds and I must say he is the only one I have found that can make them all the same.

I just mostly shoot the PP bullets and they range from 1.455" to 1.505" and the only greaser I shoot is the 121 and I think it is around 1.220", not sure about that length and they weigh around .475 GR depending what alloy I used.

Your shortened 121 would be ideal for my 95 Marlin .45-70 because of the slower twist and in time I would like your permission to use your print if you don't order one from Tom to have him make one for the Marlin and I also would ask him if he could down scale it for a .444 Marlin.
Some time you might ask Bill the rdnck about light bullets for the .45-70. I don't think that there is a person that works with a .45-70 or the .45 and .40 calibers more then he does. He can give the straight scoop on what he found working for him.

Looks like I'm gonna have to back-peddle here. Over on page three I posted a picture of what I thought was the original 121. My shortened version was actually unintentional then insofar as shortening went. Now that I've been alerted to that I'll work to obtain an original and actually have some help on the way from Texas:-)

As for what I've draw Kurt, absolutely. And if you want further changes just let me know and I can make them then send a copy to you if you pursue that with Tom. I have it saved in the software so any further tweaking you might like to see won't take long, including going backwards towards the original lube grooves. Be glad to return the favor for all the help you gave me in 2015 with my 40-65 as well as now with this 45-70. I've got your email from then.

TNX. John, It's perfect as it is for my intended use. Now to geter done.........Kurt

(12-29-2017, 06:25 PM)Kurt Wrote: I have two of Toms multiple cavity brass moulds and I must say he is the only one I have found that can make them all the same.

I just mostly shoot the PP bullets and they range from 1.455" to 1.505" and the only greaser I shoot is the 121 and I think it is around 1.220", not sure about that length and they weigh around .475 GR depending what alloy I used.

Your shortened 121 would be ideal for my 95 Marlin .45-70 because of the slower twist and in time I would like your permission to use your print if you don't order one from Tom to have him make one for the Marlin and I also would ask him if he could down scale it for a .444 Marlin.
Some time you might ask Bill the rdnck about light bullets for the .45-70. I don't think that there is a person that works with a .45-70 or the .45 and .40 calibers more then he does. He can give the straight scoop on what he found working for him.

Kurt--Why would you want to shorten the 121 to work in your Marlin? It works just fine in my 1895 the way it is. Shoot straight, rdnck.

just for the heck of it Bill That slow twist it has a shorter lighter bullet would be in order.

I know. My 1895 shoots the 340 Gould really well, and also the 420 grain Lyman 457193 flat nose. But if you want a heavier , accurate bullet that will cycle through the 1895 Marlin slick as glass, the 480 grain Lyman 457121 is the answer. And it is a proven killer on game. If you want to see it in action, look up my black powder zebra kill in Africa at 161 yards with my 45-70 Sharps on youtube. Black powder and 1244 fps at the muzzle. Shoot straight, rdnck.

Bill I been shooting the 121 in the Marlin but you know me, I always want to see what's on the other side of the hill even when it's good where I am

kurt,
"the grass grows greener on the other side", or does it?
bill,
that 121 bullet would have to be as good as it gets for a 45 cal hunting bullet
480 gns happens to have a sectional density of around 3, which just happens to be the same as the brits did for their 45 nitro rounds.
it has a flat nose.
it has a nose diameter that allows chambering in a dirty barrel.
what more could you want for a bpcr single shot, or a repeater if it will work in the action.
have often wondered how the gould bullet goes on game and what sized game it suits best.
keep safe,
bruce.