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What's the best nose shape for long range shooting?
03-07-2020, 12:46 PM
Post: #1
What's the best nose shape for long range shooting?
This a question I would like to pose to any and all long range shooters, competing or not, based your experiences. By long range I mean at distances starting at around 800 yards and going out as far as you have ever shot.

Most of us have worked with different bullet designs over our shooting lives and have developed a liking for one or more of these designs. I'm wondering what has worked best for others, what design(s) have proven to be accurate over the long haul.

For me this has been an evolving thing and I in no way think I have the answer, but I continue to search for it and in so doing I have found a few that worked better than the others. What designs did you find that have proven to be better?

I compete, mostly in Creedmoor matches, but not all shooters do and I didn't want to restrict this to just competitive shooting. I don't care if you're just a rock buster, if you have found a design or two or three that consistently shoots more accurately at greater distances I like to here your thoughts on the matter.

The long distance nature of my question may limit it to the bigger calibers, but that is part of what I'd like to see. However, if your knocking down bowling pins at 1200 yards with your .38-55 I'd like to know what your bullet looks like? The same goes for the guys rattling steel a way out there with their .50-90s.

I know velocity and bullet weight matters here, but I'm really thinking more about the shape a long range bullet needs to be to really reach out there accurately. Some designs will shoot flatter with less wind drift, but I'm looking more for what stays stable under all the conditions that we shoot in and holds accurately out to the target even if it needs a few more turns on the knobs.

Pictures of your bullet, loaded or not, and any other information about your load that you feel contributes to the bullets long range performance and you want to share would be of interest.

Think it over and tell me your thoughts on what it takes to deliver a cast bullet, paper patch or grease groove, on a target when it where, where out there.

What bullets are your 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice for accurate long range shooting?

Thank you for your replies.

Jim Kluskens
aka Distant Thunder
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03-07-2020, 01:57 PM
Post: #2
RE: What's the best nose shape for long range shooting?
Jim, That is an interesting topic. I'm looking forward to reading more.
My hunch is that there is no magic bullet, but I have not actually tested two different bullets at LR at the same time.
You on the other hand have tested two very different bullets at the same range on the same afternoon [Harris, MN].

I just go from one bullet to another. I had a money bullet that shot good, and now I shoot an elliptical with
a medium length nose [BA 446530E if i remember correctly]. I can not shoot well enough to determine which is better.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT
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03-07-2020, 02:13 PM
Post: #3
RE: What's the best nose shape for long range shooting?
Mike,

I've been wondering how well I can shoot with irons lately too. I'm going to be putting a scope on my Hepburn very soon, just for load development. I just need to know for sure if it's the jerk on the trigger that causes those wild shots I get every now and then.

I knew the money bullet would be in the list as well as the ellipticals. It will be interesting to see if any of the older designs still hold favor?

Your money bullet did shoot well for you, I'm surprised you moved away from it.

You are absolutely correct, there's no magic bullet but some do hold up better than others. I'd like to see if there is anything common in the BPCR world today. I know there is and there probably won't be any surprises here.

It just a good later winter topic as we all are getting ready for the 2020 season.

Jim Kluskens
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03-07-2020, 04:57 PM
Post: #4
RE: What's the best nose shape for long range shooting?
I like the Mitford/money nose tha BACO uses

I also like the original postel that Brooks makes but I do think the money nose bullets are better in the wind
But I’m also amazed at how well the bullet Eddie shoots in his 90 does
It has the aerodynamic capable looks of a John boat

A wise man can always be found alone. A weak man can always be found in a crowd.
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03-07-2020, 10:28 PM
Post: #5
RE: What's the best nose shape for long range shooting?
"It has the aerodynamic capable looks of a John boat"

Now that made me laugh!

Jim Kluskens
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03-07-2020, 11:00 PM
Post: #6
RE: What's the best nose shape for long range shooting?
Ya, but a john boat will go where a deep v hull cant go Smile

The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.
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03-07-2020, 11:58 PM
Post: #7
RE: What's the best nose shape for long range shooting?
Now that's not fair... I don't fish. Had to go and look up 'John/ Jon boat' on the internet. Never sure what you'll find there Confused . Thanks for the tip Kurt. I'm sure I'm not frequent enough...nor consistent enough in my shooting to give an absolute bias but I would err towards a more radiused nose than the money bullet. More along the profile you've been discussing in the pp forum. It sometimes, not always, needs a few more minutes of elevation but doesn't seem to need the higher velocity that the money bullets seem to prefer. My best results have been with the Brooks Creedmoor/ original postell type but I've not enough results to make a definite call. I've shot a few elliptical designs with success but they've needed more horsepower and tend to go off the beaten track more easily when the wind is up. This is likely related to twist rate also I suspect..but the rounded ' Sharps' style nose has been more forgiving in changing conditions.... so far Undecided
G.

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03-08-2020, 12:05 AM
Post: #8
RE: What's the best nose shape for long range shooting?
I'm more of a john boat guy myself. Shoot straight, rdnck.
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03-08-2020, 09:41 AM
Post: #9
RE: What's the best nose shape for long range shooting?
You guys need to post pictures of the bullets that you have actually used if possible. All money bullets, as an example, are not created equal. I read recently that the first version of the was much heavier in the nose, more like a Medford design. The second version was thinned down for some reason and that became the "popular" and much copied version we see today.

The Postell has transformed over time also but in the opposite way. The original Postell was a grease groove version of the Sharps long-range paper patch bullet (WHY would anyone do that?!) It later was transformed into more of a bore ride nose and is along the lines of a Paul Jones Creedmoor design.

I get the feeling that the evolution of our bullets is not necessarily pushed by the actual performance over long distances. To be honest, while there are some gains to be made in ballistic coefficiencies I don't believe that in practice they are as pronounced as some people have stated, not in the transonic zone. Any accuracy that is sacrificed for gains in a higher BC don't yield enough of a gain for the accuracy lost.

I'm thinking that the gains in BC are minimal in part because we are actually working in all three velocity ranges, supersonic, transonic and subsonic and the bullet shape best suited to one isn't necessarily well suited for the other two. It is well know that to transition from supersonic to subsonic is bad for any moving object and yet here we are, stuck in the worst possible velocity range that exists. So the real question is, how best to deal with that? What bullet shapes in use are best to deal with the transonic velocities we must operate in?

I do believe if we get enough of your personal observations and experiences that we will see a trend and it may be a surprise to current thinking.

I think J.B. made a good point with this, "Sharps' style nose has been more forgiving in changing conditions....".

We're not going to discover anything new or invent the "MAGIC" bullet, heck we're not even going to try anything that hasn't been done before. I do hope we will narrow the field to a few of the best bullets that have designs that make them more determined to stay the course at long-range no matter what tries to move them off their intended target.

Jim Kluskens
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03-08-2020, 10:23 AM
Post: #10
RE: What's the best nose shape for long range shooting?
Jim If I was to post all the moulds and bullets they cast I would get kicked off this forum for taking up to much band space LOL.

In all reality if I was to have only one bullet it would be with the paper patched postell ogive. You don't need a fast twist or 200 grains of powder behind it to keep it stable over it's entire distance you want to shoot it.
If you noticed when Dan T started to take the Jacketed HP bullet designs and put GG on them cast with lead the trend with faster twist barrels showed up to keep them stable at long ranges. I have a drawer full of the money bullet and elliptical moulds both GG and PP and I have rifles with 1/16, 1/17, 1/18 and 1/19 ROT's and in all of those twists the postell type ogives have proved out the best at all ranges.
I'm not just a now and then shooter, I used to go through 4-5 cases of powder a year except for the last two years health has been working on me were I'm down to less then two cases a year, but I have shot all these bullets with the .40, .44, .45 and the 50 calibers in cases of low to high volume in powder capacity and it's hard to outdo the postell or the other in the picture below. Just take off the rumble strips. Smile
And than comes the John boat but that is for filling the freezer or busting bowling pins Smile

       

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