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44-60 bottle neck
06-26-2019, 11:00 PM
Post: #1
44-60 bottle neck
After posting on the Shiloh board and getting nothing but opinions on what I should use and do I figured I would post the same question here and see what I get.
Does anyone on here have any information about this cartridge? What was it used in, used for, what is the history behind it?
For those that don't know what it is, its the 44-77's little brother, its only a 1 7/8" bottle neck case, BACO makes them from the 348 case.
Sam
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06-26-2019, 11:40 PM
Post: #2
RE: 44-60 bottle neck
Sam, Seller's book on page 339 says it's a very rare Sharps cartridge and was discontinued in 1875. Marcot's book says that they could find no cartridge boxes or labels for it, but somewhere in what remains of the Sharps records there is a notation that it Sharps never made that cartridge, but UMC and Winchester both loaded it. Which isn't that unusual as UMC and Winchester loaded a number of cartridges for Sharps rifles that the Sharps factory didn't.
I can't find all the reprints of the Sharps catalogs at the moment, but I do seem to recall seeing the 1 7/8 inch case listed in their cartridge listings...

At any rate it was loaded with a 380 gr paper patch bullet and 60 grains of powder. Should make a good midrange/silhouette cartridge, and would probably do a pretty fair job on big game.

A wise man can always be found alone. A weak man can always be found in a crowd.
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06-27-2019, 03:02 AM
Post: #3
RE: 44-60 bottle neck
Thanks Don, I do wonder if it was perhaps chambered in a Rolling block at some point. My thoughts are like you that it might make a good shiloutte round. I don't think the reformed 348 cases will hold tht much powder but once fire formed it might come close. I was thinking something in the 400 -450 gr range ppb would be good all around for most anything and not make a lot of recoil either.
I am working on a hepburn action and have a barrel, so things are still in the planning stage but I do like to be fully informed before I take a plung.
Sam
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06-27-2019, 09:08 AM
Post: #4
RE: 44-60 bottle neck
Sam it's funny how people react when someone asks about this cartridge or that. The amount of negative response that came forth when I asked about the 44-77 years ago was astounding., Funny thing is tho most of those folks had no experience with the cartridge, some still don't...

Anyhow my thoughts are if you got the itch for the cartridge, just do it. I think it might be a fun one, and like you said if it doesn't pan out, run the 77 reamer in there and be happy.

A wise man can always be found alone. A weak man can always be found in a crowd.
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06-27-2019, 01:28 PM
Post: #5
RE: 44-60 bottle neck
Yea Don I do agree. It was kind of funny that after I whipped out a bit of a bitch fit, some actual answers did show up. One poster said that the case capacity between the 44-60 and a 45-70 was only 5 grs of water, I did check that but with powder and not water, the difference is just over 15 grains in favor of the 45. Another thing that surprised me was how heavy the reformed .348 case was. I don't remember the exact numbers but the reformed case was somewhere in the 220 gr range or so, the 45 wasn't even close, and that was Winchester brass.
As far as pulling the trigger on the project, my guess is at least a year or so down the road. The Hepburn is one from Missouri Trading and there is a good bit of work to be done on it. Then there is the stock and all that work. But I do feel that just all in good time.
Sam
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06-27-2019, 01:53 PM
Post: #6
RE: 44-60 bottle neck
Sam I wonder if you could scare up some 50-110 cases. Those were the ones that Winchester based the 348 off of in the first place, but I think they drew them a little heavier to handle the higher pressures of smokeless.
Maybe if you could find some of the Hornady 348 cases those might hold a bit more powder. I know the 45-70 cases I have from them hold way more powder than rp or ww.

Keep us posted on that Hepburn project, I've heard those "kits" need a lot of work.

A wise man can always be found alone. A weak man can always be found in a crowd.
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06-27-2019, 02:28 PM
Post: #7
RE: 44-60 bottle neck
I would think that any of the .50 cases would work, I don't know how short the 50-70 is but the 44-60 case is only 1 7/8". Yea it makes sense that Winchester would beef up the case for the extra horse power. I used Swiss 1 1/2 powder to test the capacity and I think to the base of the neck was about 43 or so grains, probably gain a couple once its blown out.
Yea the hepburn actions are a bit more work than advertised. I got the one that is drilled and taped but still the trigger housing/lower tang has to have about .060" taken off to even fit into the action. Hammer and trigger both need a lot of metal removed. Nothing I can't do but I am kind of Anal about how things fit. The one part that concerns me a bit is the block lever, that has to be fitted to 2 holes and the actuator block. I have seen one that had been built and assembled. it just needed a trigger job and the firing pin hole drilled. For the most part it turned out nice and I will have to try to remember to check with the owner next month to see how well its working. So many projects, so little time.
Sam
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06-27-2019, 02:35 PM
Post: #8
RE: 44-60 bottle neck
I believe the rim diameter of the 50 sharps cartridges is larger and the rim thicker than the 50-110/348 family.

I know in the Shiloh 40-90 bn it takes another 4 grains of 1f after the initial fire forming of new cases

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06-28-2019, 08:43 AM
Post: #9
RE: 44-60 bottle neck
Been emailing back and forth with a salesman at BACO about a bullet mold so I asked him about the 50-110 case and if it could be used to form the 44 case and if it would change the case capacity. I will post on here what he replys back to me.
But like I have said, at this point I am just collecting information. I tend to be a long range planner. And if I do end up with that overpowering bug up my butt to have the barrel mounted and chambered I can always have it screwed into my CPA. At least the threads are the same on that as they are in the Hepburn action I have.
Sam
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06-28-2019, 08:54 AM
Post: #10
RE: 44-60 bottle neck
Sam,

I saw a Hepburn kit like yours several years ago at Raton, it was all fitted and assembled but still in the white. I'm not sure who did the work but it was very well done and smooth as silk to raise and lower the block. It inspired me to build my Hepburn and while I didn't use a kit it was a lot of work, taking 4 years to complete. I've been shooting for about 5 years now and it has been worth every bit of the 4 years of work. Take you time and you'll have not only a rifle you can be proud of but a fine shooting rifle too. It WILL be worth the journey, mine is.

Good luck and enjoy the journey.

Jim Kluskens
aka Distant Thunder

"Let us stand our ground. If we die, let us die here." Reverend William Emerson Concord, Massachusetts April 19, 1775
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